The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[The Don]

Copied from the medicine thread. >Deaths have peaked; the rate is 0.2%.

How is it clear that deaths have peaked? As of today the death rate is at 5.9% which is huge for a virus.

The death rate is 0.02% if it's calculated as a percentage of the entire US population, not as a percentage of the number of confirmed cases.

Whilst it's true that calculating the death rate from the number of confirmed cases will likely result in a significant overestimation (due to the fact there may be many, many people out there who are untested but who have, or have had Coronavirus), calculating it based on the entire US population because "everyone must have had it" will result in a gross underestimation unless there is evidence that everyone, or nearly everyone has or has had Coronavirus.

 

[The Don]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/11/politics/mitch-mcconnell-barack-obama-coronavirus-response/index.html

McConnell is getting a little uppity here, telling a former president what he should and shouldn't do.

I'll think you'll find that "uppity" is an adjective which should properly be applied to a person of colour, not a turtle .

 

[newyorkguy]

The death rate is 0.02% if it's calculated as a percentage of the entire US population, not as a percentage of the number of confirmed cases...

Okay that explains it. I guess this is another way for right wingers to minimize the seriousness of this pandemic. Along with their new meme that dying is no big deal anyway.

 

[Mader Levap]

If dying is not a big deal, republiloonies are welcome to go out first. Good riddance.

BTW fact that these morons are forced to use more and more overaching statistics is indirect evidence that COVID-19 is way worse than flu. Otherwise you wouldn't need to compare it to larger and larger group of people to get sufficiently small, sounding good percentage.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I wonder why none of these Trumpanzees protesting let it bother them that those encouraging them to protest are sheltering in place....

 

[Giordano]

No it's not true!!!

Lucy pulls the football away yet again Charlie Brown.

May 11, CNN: Fact check: Trump falsely claims, again, that anybody who wants a test can get oneWeasel words.

In addition, the scenario in the MSN news article requires fully funded public health team to carry out contact tracing. Good luck with that.

Even “everyone who needs a test can get one” is itself a cruel, dangerous lie. The USA is dreadfully short of that crucial goal. The many people dying in old age and veteran homes is due in part to the fact that there are not enough tests available to test the staffs in these homes. In the vast majority of cases none of the staff are tested, even although they are begging to be tested to protect their clients. Even true of most hospital staffs, let alone meat packing plant workers!

How smug and willfully ignorant (or blatantly lying) are those in their protected bubble at the top of our government!

 

[Meadmaker]

Honestly? Actions speak louder than words. There's almost no point in trusting the words of random Trump Administration person #57 without some really good reasons to do so, because they lie and mislead practically as their default when protecting Trump is at all in play.

Indeed.

I get the feeling that the admiral in question is pretty good. I've seen him speak before at the briefings, and never heard anything stupid. I remember his presentation he gave on setting up emergency hospital facilities and I was impressed. However, he's just the logistics guy.

If indeed there are that many tests available, it's time to roll them out, isn't it? The way to keep the virus under wraps and let us all get back to lives that are almost normal again would be to test everyone with symptoms, and everyone they contact, and quarantine anyone who tests positive. If we do that, and the tests don't have too many false negatives, then the virus wouldn't be eradicated, but at least it would be manageable. I know I'm willing to take a small risk to work in an office and eat at a restaurant again. I just want that risk to be small.

What I don't see from the administration is any plan or action. Trump is still in the "If you want a test..." mode. That's wrong on two levels. First, it is apparently not even correct. Second, it's not a matter of "wanting". It ought to be, "You are exposed, so we need to find out if you are dangerous." The "freedom" crowd won't like the idea, but who cares?

 

[Giordano]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/11/politics/mitch-mcconnell-barack-obama-coronavirus-response/index.html

McConnell is getting a little uppity here, telling a former president what he should and shouldn't do.

Oh no, its Obama who is “uppity” for speaking up against a white man the White House. Even in a private conversation. No matter the years of vile attacks on him by Trump. Obama needs to “know his place.”

Once again the Republicans falsely attacking someone else for what Trump actually does constantly and vilely.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I think it's starting to work. Trump generates so much nonsense, I'm losing track. And in the end, everybody is talking about him. Which actually matters.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From the science thread:

Of course I realise what the consequences are. Emotive language like that is childish though. I know this place is practically a leftie mono-culture, but one would have to be living in willful blindness not to be aware that there is a debate about this going on. It's not a question of wanting people to die as well you know. However, what are the alternatives? Stay locked down until there is a cure/vaccine? How long is that going to take and what will the destruction and death be as a consequence? A vaccine is months away and who knows when it will be widely available. Do you want to screw up the economy? Do you want all the suicides and ruined lives that go with that? I doubt you want that any more than I want death. There are two sides to this Darat.

Yeah right, all those suicides.

That's a POTUS talking point we'll all come back to when people start killing themselves in droves.

According to Trump the economy will recover before Nov. Think I'll start repeating that talking point.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The simplest explanation is that he never has anything worthwhile to say, and whatever he does say is probably going to be inaccurate anyway. Nothing he says about numbers would carry any credence at all. These are campaign events for him.

IOW, don't call him on his lies, just let him repeat them ad nauseum to his base, because it's a boring news story.

 

[johnny karate]

From the science thread:
Yeah right, all those suicides.

That's a POTUS talking point we'll all come back to when people start killing themselves in droves.

According to Trump the economy will recover before Nov. Think I'll start repeating that talking point.

“Do you want to screw up the economy?”

Probably a question Trump sycophants should have asked Trump a couple of months ago when his incompetence and repeated failures put us in this situation.

 

[dann]

MSNBC (May 12, 2020): Trump Makes False Claims On Per Capita Virus Death Rates: WaPo | Morning Joe (7 min.)

Trump: I think one of the things we’re most proud of is deaths per 100,000 people. So deaths per 100,000 people – Germany and the United States are at the lowest rung of that ladder – meaning low is a positive, not a negative. Germany and the United States are the two best in deaths per 100,000 people, which frankly, to me, that’s perhaps the most important number there is.

In the real world (Worldometers):
Deaths per 1 million
USA: 249
Germany: 92

The USA is actually #13 from the top - four places below Sweden - and only if you include 'countries' like San Marino, Andorra, Sint Marteen and Isle of Man! Germany is #23 (just overtook Denmark)!

ETA: He may have confused deaths per million with tests per million:
USA: 29,336
Germany: 32,891
The two countries are pretty close, but not doing particularly well.

 

[Jungle Jim]

MSNBC (May 12, 2020): Trump Makes False Claims On Per Capita Virus Death Rates: WaPo | Morning Joe (7 min.)





In the real world (Worldometers):
Deaths per 1 million
USA: 249
Germany: 92

The USA is actually #13 from the top - four places below Sweden - and only if you include 'countries' like San Marino, Andorra, Sint Marteen and Isle of Man! Germany is #23 (just overtook Denmark)!

ETA: He may have confused deaths per million with tests per million:
USA: 29,336
Germany: 32,891
The two countries are pretty close, but not doing particularly well.

I saw the press conference and none of the reporters challenged him. Do they not arrive at these press briefings prepared?

 

[newyorkguy]

We also saw someone post here several weeks ago that California had a lower death rate than a lot of other states because of "better weather." I don't know if that was just a talking point or they really believed it. Several weeks ago California was at 29 deaths per million. Now it's 69 per million. Why is it some people just can't get their minds around the fact that these numbers are going to keep going up? The only way California's per-million number wasn't going to rise was if the state a) suddenly had no coronavirus or b) gained one million residents for every coronavirus death.

California is doing so-so, with numbers of new cases dipping and spiking but the general trend is still upward. On May 5th they had the most new cases ever, with 2,603.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

MSNBC (May 12, 2020): Trump Makes False Claims On Per Capita Virus Death Rates: WaPo | Morning Joe (7 min.)





In the real world (Worldometers):
Deaths per 1 million
USA: 249
Germany: 92

The USA is actually #13 from the top - four places below Sweden - and only if you include 'countries' like San Marino, Andorra, Sint Marteen and Isle of Man! Germany is #23 (just overtook Denmark)!

ETA: He may have confused deaths per million with tests per million:
USA: 29,336
Germany: 32,891
The two countries are pretty close, but not doing particularly well.

Yes, the actual lowest for which there is a figure is Ethiopia with 0.04 deaths per million. But that's a ******** country so doesn't count.

 

[wareyin]

We also saw someone post here several weeks ago that California had a lower death rate than a lot of other states because of "better weather." I don't know if that was just a talking point or they really believed it. Several weeks ago California was at 29 deaths per million. Now it's 69 per million. Why is it some people just can't get their minds around the fact that these numbers are going to keep going up? The only way California's per-million number wasn't going to rise was if the state a) suddenly had no coronavirus or b) gained one million residents for every coronavirus death.

California is doing so-so, with numbers of new cases dipping and spiking but the general trend is still upward. On May 5th they had the most new cases ever, with 2,603.

Do you mind sharing where you get the graphs from? Thanks

 

[newyorkguy]

I've both linked and described the tracker several times. It's from Google. In fact, all you have to do is, open Google, type "cases in -- the name of a state or country -- coronavirus" in the search box and it should be the first result you see. It will be displayed directly on the search page, you don't have to click on a link. There is a ton of information available.

Link

 

[Crossbow]

By the way, ...

Now Mitch McConnell says that the Corona Virus issue is Obama's fault.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-trump-mcconnell-blame-obama-pandemic-140217286.html
McConnell puts blame for 2020 coronavirus failure on Barack Obama, in office 2009-2017

With more than 80,000 Americans dead from the coronavirus, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and President Trump are trying to deflect blame to former President Barack Obama.

In a dialogue with Trump’s daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, live-streamed by the Trump campaign on Monday evening, McConnell said that Obama’s team, which exited office over three years ago,“did not leave to this administration any kind of game plan for something like [the coronavirus pandemic].”

...

“We literally left them a 69-page Pandemic Playbook.... that they ignored,” tweeted Ron Klain, who oversaw the Ebola response under Obama and now advises presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden. “And an office called the Pandemic Preparedness Office... that they abolished. And a global monitoring system called PREDICT .. that they cut by 75%.”

“The maddening thing is Obama left them a WH office for pandemics, a literal playbook, a cabinet-level exercise, and a global infrastructure to deal with ‘something like this,’” tweeted former Obama adviser Ben Rhodes.

...

Hours after Trump’s comments, Fox News host and informal Trump adviser Sean Hannity said on his primetime show that Obama was activating “deep state operatives” to “do dirty work.” However, Senate Republicans said Monday they were not interested in investigating Obama.

...

 

[newyorkguy]

This is the part I don't get. I understand the desire to start re-opening businesses and get people back to work. I don't agree with the timing, but I understand the argument that the US can't just keep a few million people on unemployment for months on end.

What I don't get is why these businesses are part of the first wave of re-openings. They're just about the worst type of business to be running right now, because they all require far too much close personal interaction. Hair cuts and manicures simply can't be done at a safe distance, and waiting tables while maintaining safe practices seems quite difficult. These should be the last things to re-open, not the first...

To get back to this, restaurants have been able to remain open, just not serve food in the restaurant. It's take out (usually curbside pickup) or delivery. Apparently that has not worked too well for many restaurants. The states relaxing the restrictions are allowing restaurants to begin seating and serving people at a table or booth inside the restaurant. But with limits on how many people can come in at a time and with tables closed off to promote social distancing. Beauty salons? I don't really understand that although I know a lot of people, presumably mostly women, have complained about it. I get it: for some people trying to cut or trim their hair at home just doesn't work. I suppose it's also considered a morale booster. Get your hair done, your nails, look great and feel better.

On some of the Sunday news talk shows these things were discussed. Public health officials weren't too enthusiastic. As one of them said, if people always followed the restrictions -- even when the restrictions have been relaxed -- that at least would help to minimize the spread. But, as the official said, people DON'T always follow the restrictions, they bend 'em a little.

And they emphasized, there are a certain percentage of people out there who are infected and contagious but without symptoms. This is where the real danger is.

There may be a lot of people walking around who have COVID-19 but have no idea they are spreading the virus. The first word of this possibility came in early April from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director, Dr. Robert Redfield, in an interview with National Public Radio affiliate WABE. “One of the [pieces of] information that we have confirmed now is that a significant number of individuals that are infected actually remain asymptomatic. That may be as many as 25 percent,” Redfield said. Link