Jogging in Georgia while black.

[arthwollipot]

But property theft? You gotta be able to shoot some ****** running off with your TV, right?

Well, for a start you know me and my thoughts about guns for self defence. But did that happen? I thought the man was just poking about an unfinished house. He didn't actually take anything. Did I miss something?

 

[Olmstead]

I don't understand. Can people in parts of the USA actually walk around and/or accost people with a loaded shotgun in their hands like they're in Mad Max or something? I'd assume this to be a pretty serious crime even without the killing, but I guess I'm wrong?

 

[lionking]

Well, for a start you know me and my thoughts about guns for self defence. But did that happen? I thought the man was just poking about an unfinished house. He didn't actually take anything. Did I miss something?

Allegedly at the unfinished house. Unconfirmed 911 calls mean next to nothing, but “the only good ****** is a dead ******” crowd will latch on to anything.

 

[arthwollipot]

I don't understand. Can people in parts of the USA actually walk around and/or accost people with a loaded shotgun in their hands like they're in Mad Max or something? I'd assume this to be a pretty serious crime even without the killing, but I guess I'm wrong?

Apparently, in some parts of the USA, yes. Don't try doing it in Times Square or Hollywood Boulevard though.

 

[Olmstead]

Apparently, in some parts of the USA, yes. Don't try doing it in Times Square or Hollywood Boulevard though.

Legally though? Does anyone of the locals bat an eye? This feels so bizzare to me. If I travelled to the US (Georgia for example) and saw someone with a gun in their hand, my first thought would be that a mass shooting is imminent and that I need to get the hell out of there.

 

[whoanellie]

See, you could not be more mistaken. This story has everything to do with trespassing.



Arbery's trespassing on the day of, and trespassing previously on video, led to two individuals independently identifying him as the trespasser previously caught on video. If he would have chose not to trespass, he could have continued his routine jog through the neighborhood like he had been doing for years, according to his mother and neighbors, but he didn't. His trespassing precipitated a confrontation and now he's dead because of it.

There's no evidence that Arbery or any other person trespassed on the day af the shooting.

 

[Roboramma]

Going out on a limb: maybe no worse than the outcome chosen? No?

He didn't know what the outcome would be. Faced with a split second decision between fight and flight, he chose the former. It may not have worked out for him, but the latter may not have worked out any better.

I would think so. But the State of Georgia seems to allow it. Open carry laws, and the guys were legal. Hard to see on the video, but it looks like shotgun boy is holding level and perpendicular to Arbery when he runs up to the truck. The first time the gun points in Arbery's direction is when they meet at the front of the truck, when it was go time for both of them.

They may be allowed to have the guns, but that doesn't mean that it's not a crime to threaten him with them.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't say it doesn't happen, and I suppose I'd better not say it isn't protected. I am presuming here sniping before the victim has been given any warning that there's anything happening. If that is protected, it sure shouldn't be.

Kill black gun owners open carrying legally for following orders to put their weapon on the ground is legal why would a little sniping be such a bad thing?

You have a very inaccurate bar of what it takes to get a police officer in trouble for killing someone.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Try reading harder. The hillbillies confronted him twice. The first time he ran away. The second time he charged them. They were parked. He ran up to them and attacked.

Would you do that? I wouldn't. Confronted witb armed nutjobs, and being unarmed, I would be cutting across some lawns to get away from them. As fast as I could.

So you advocate charging at armed crazies? Do tell.

So you are against stand your ground laws and for mandating retreat at all times, at least for blacks. Only whites can stand their ground.

 

[Mumbles]

Seems no different than when George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin for being black, and outside.

ETA: as we've seen, some people here are okay with armed white supremacists storming into state houses, but a black guy walking home from the store should be shot dead.

 

[uke2se]

Seems no different than when George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin for being black, and outside.

ETA: as we've seen, some people here are okay with armed white supremacists storming into state houses, but a black guy walking home from the store should be shot dead.

I expect we'll soon hear stories about how Arbery was no angel (angle, if Trump tweets about it).

 

[Mumbles]

Why is someone supposed to make a citizens arrest in the absence of a crime?

Could an actual cop have arrested Arbery for anything?

No crime = no cause for arrest, citizen or LEO. The rednecks waved their guns around. Arbery took a run at shotgun boy. This was not ending well in any scenario.

Yep. It's the black guy's fault, no matter what.

Thanks for supplying the white supremacist argument for murder.

 

[Mumbles]

I expect we'll soon hear stories about how Arbery was no angel (angle, if Trump tweets about it).

"Oh noes, here's a picture of him with his middle fingers raised! Thus, he must have been a violent thug that attacked these two innocent white guys, please ignore the recording of him trying to escape! He must have run away, and then ran back and punched them in the face from behind!"

 

[smartcooky]

There's no evidence that Arbery or any other person trespassed on the day af the shooting.

Look at who you are replying to!

The only evidence he needs is that the victim was black.

 

[whoanellie]

Look at who you are replying to!

The only evidence he needs is that the victim was black.

I know, but I just wanted to put it on the record.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Agreed, all possible. Little tiny bit conspiratorial, but certainly possible.



Very true. I can see going out for a run and checking out a cool open house under construction. Wouldn't think twice about it.

I just watched the video again. Arbery is running straight into shotgun boy, and veers last minute to get behind the truck, and turns again without any hesitation to grab the gun. He knew what he was doing. Pretty damned ballsy, too. I likely would have been heading for cover of the trees on either side, and putting some acreage between me and the boomstick.

I can't blame him for confronting the rednecks straight on. But I've known way too many genuinely crazy armed hillbillies to charge a truckfull of them empty handed. While brazen, 'twas not with an eye for self-preservation. It's not the movies, we are not bulletproof, and the good guys don't always ride off into the sunset. Sometimes the bad guys kill you and waltz away.

Whether or not charging the armed man was a wise tactical move is largely irrelevant to the moral or legal question of the matter.

Our two vigilantes have a very narrow needle to thread to make all this lawful. Otherwise it's just two armed men brandishing firearms and attempting an unlawful arrest.


If Arbery is being met with unlawful brandishing, he is in mortal danger, and he has the full weight of the law to defend himself without attempting to flee. The fact that it didn't work out well for him doesn't change that it was his right to try.

I could easily see why someone would charge rather than risk being shot in the back by two men at close range. It's a dire situation where no good solution exists, except perhaps in hindsight. How was Arbery supposed to know these guys were LARPing as law enforcement and didn't have strictly sinister motives?

If a mugger sticks a gun in your face, the smart thing to do is to hand over your wallet. Grabbing the gun and fighting the mugger is still your legal right, and if the mugger blasts you during the struggle it's still murder.

The crux of this case is whether it was lawful for the two men to brandish firearms in an attempt to arrest Arbery. If it wasn't, Arbery had every right to defend himself, and the two men were armed aggressors who committed murder (and felony murder accomplices). The DA appears to be granting a very generous interpretation of the citizen arrest statute to paper over a daylight killing, hence the outrage.

 

[Crossbow]

Legally though? Does anyone of the locals bat an eye? This feels so bizzare to me. If I travelled to the US (Georgia for example) and saw someone with a gun in their hand, my first thought would be that a mass shooting is imminent and that I need to get the hell out of there.

To answer your question, ...

Most of the states in the United States have provisions in the law for what is called 'open carry of firearms'.

In short, provided that one is openly carrying a firearm in public and that the person in question is not trying to conceal the firearm (the codes spell out what actually defines an open carry), then provided that the person in question is:

not a criminal,
not a person with a prior criminal record,
not a person who is engaged in some sort of illegal activity,
not in on a municipal property of some sort,
and so on.

Then that person has a legal right to openly carry a firearm.

I hope this helps.

 

[uke2se]

To answer your question, ...

Most of the states in the United States have provisions in the law for what is called 'open carry of firearms'.

In short, provided that one is openly carrying a firearm in public and that the person in question is not trying to conceal the firearm (the codes spell out what actually defines an open carry), then provided that the person in question is:

not a criminal,
not a person with a prior criminal record,
not a person who is engaged in some sort of illegal activity,
not in on a municipal property of some sort,
and so on.

Then that person has a legal right to openly carry a firearm.

I hope this helps.

Seems municpial properties aren't excempt everywhere.

 

[Darat]

Seems no different than when George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin for being black, and outside.

ETA: as we've seen, some people here are okay with armed white supremacists storming into state houses, but a black guy walking home from the store should be shot dead.

Big, big difference.


Video.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Big, big difference.


Video.

Indeed.

The killing occurred in February. I first read about it a couple weeks ago. The video didn't come out until just recently, and now it's headline news.

These people killed the only other witness who might challenge their story. If it wasn't for the video, they would be in the clear.