Jogging in Georgia while black.

[BobTheCoward]

Just to repeat, we have the suggestion that an unarmed black person out for a jog who gets chased by white guys with shotguns in a pickup deserves to get shot if he doesn't surrender to them.

He could have kept walking rather than initiate physical contact (if he was the one to initiate contact).

 

[whoanellie]

He could have kept walking rather than initiate physical contact (if he was the one to initiate contact).

From what I've seen the runner does try to avoid the man with the shotgun who clearly crosses the road to confront him.

 

[BobTheCoward]

From what I've seen the runner does try to avoid the man with the shotgun who clearly crosses the road to confront him.

I would say that is the exact opposite of what he does

 

[smartcooky]

Cletus and Bubba pull out a shotgun, try to stop a black jogger in the street and kill him, and this is just fine with Georgia Law Enforcement?

I promise you, if it was DeShawn and Jamal who pulled out a shotgun and tried to stop a white jogger in the street and killed him, both of their black arses would already have been tried, found guilty and be sitting on death row.

 

[whoanellie]

I would say that is the exact opposite of what he does

The shotgunner is standing in the middle of the road. As the runner approaches the back of the pickup he goes to the right (passenger) side of the truck. The shotdunner moves across the front of the truck to intercept the runner.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I would say that is the exact opposite of what he does

Nope.

From the video, it is clear that he runs around the truck as though it is just another he encounters on his daily run, only to be confronted almost face-to-face with someone obstructing his progress and pointing a shotgun at him. This would be the first intimation he had of any problems. Since he is already traveling quickly, this would be a very sudden encounter, seeing a gun pointed at him from close range. It would be instinctive to try and push the gun away from him, to stop it being aimed at him. Once he has hold of the gun, he is not simply going to let go and risk being fired at. The struggle ensues and he tries to keep it pointed away. Two shots are fired during that time. Maybe one or both hit him. He turns to escape and the third shot is fired (from the second shooter in the truck who has a Magnum pistol), killing him.

I suspect the "camera car" was in league with the two in the truck. Which says to me this was a deliberate setup. They were looking for Arbery because they knew where he ran every day. They had been staking him out. But either what they didn't expect was going to be a cold-blooded murder, or they wanted a snuff movie of this kill. Either way, it is murder, they were real dumb enough to let the video get into the public domain, and they should be in jail for life.

 

[whoanellie]

Nope.

From the video, it is clear that he runs around the truck as though it is just another he encounters on his daily run, only to be confronted almost face-to-face with someone obstructing his progress and pointing a shotgun at him. This would be the first intimation he had of any problems. Since he is already traveling quickly, this would be a very sudden encounter, seeing a gun pointed at him from close range. It would be instinctive to try and push the gun away from him, to stop it being aimed at him. Once he has hold of the gun, he is not simply going to let go and risk being fired at. The struggle ensues and he tries to keep it pointed away. Two shots are fired during that time. Maybe one or both hit him. He turns to escape and the third shot is fired (from the second shooter in the truck who has a Magnum pistol), killing him.

I suspect the "camera car" was in league with the two in the truck. Which says to me this was a deliberate setup. They were looking for Arbery because they knew where he ran every day. They had been staking him out. But either what they didn't expect was going to be a cold-blooded murder, or they wanted a snuff movie of this kill. Either way, it is murder, they were real dumb enough to let the video get into the public domain, and they should be in jail for life.

I agree with your conclusion but

1) He doesn't seem to be running around the truck like it's an everyday occurrence. He sees the guy with the gun in the middle of the road and runs to the other side of the truck.

2) In the video I saw yesterday you can't see the initial confrontation but th e gun goes off immediately.

3) the 'camera car' was driven by a man named William Bryan and he was in leage with the two in the truck.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It would be instinctive to try and push the gun away from him, to stop it being aimed at him.

Which is the exact opposite of "try to avoid."

 

[BobTheCoward]

The shotgunner is standing in the middle of the road. As the runner approaches the back of the pickup he goes to the right (passenger) side of the truck. The shotdunner moves across the front of the truck to intercept the runner.

And the runner failed to avoid contact in that situation.

 

[Meadmaker]

I agree with your conclusion but

1) He doesn't seem to be running around the truck like it's an everyday occurrence. He sees the guy with the gun in the middle of the road and runs to the other side of the truck.

2) In the video I saw yesterday you can't see the initial confrontation but th e gun goes off immediately.

3) the 'camera car' was driven by a man named William Bryan and he was in leage with the two in the truck.

I would have to watch the video again, which I'm not going to do right at the moment, but I would agree. I noticed his gait at the time he approached the truck did not seem to be a jogger's gait. He appeared to rapidly run to the right side of the truck, with a sudden change of direction and high step.

At least, that's what I thought as I watched the video.

 

[whoanellie]

And the runner failed to avoid contact in that situation.

Whenever I am being chased by one car towards two armed men in a pickup, one of whom is clearly moving towards me with a shotgun my first thought is always 'these people must have the best of intentions but I need to do everything humanly possible to avoid contact......'

 

[whoanellie]

I would have to watch the video again, which I'm not going to do right at the moment, but I would agree. I noticed his gait at the time he approached the truck did not seem to be a jogger's gait. He appeared to rapidly run to the right side of the truck, with a sudden change of direction and high step.

At least, that's what I thought as I watched the video.

That's what I see.

 

[Mike!]

Nope.

From the video, it is clear that he runs around the truck as though it is just another he encounters on his daily run, only to be confronted almost face-to-face with someone obstructing his progress and pointing a shotgun at him. This would be the first intimation he had of any problems. Since he is already traveling quickly, this would be a very sudden encounter, seeing a gun pointed at him from close range. It would be instinctive to try and push the gun away from him, to stop it being aimed at him. Once he has hold of the gun, he is not simply going to let go and risk being fired at. The struggle ensues and he tries to keep it pointed away. Two shots are fired during that time. Maybe one or both hit him. He turns to escape and the third shot is fired (from the second shooter in the truck who has a Magnum pistol), killing him.

I suspect the "camera car" was in league with the two in the truck. Which says to me this was a deliberate setup. They were looking for Arbery because they knew where he ran every day. They had been staking him out. But either what they didn't expect was going to be a cold-blooded murder, or they wanted a snuff movie of this kill. Either way, it is murder, they were real dumb enough to let the video get into the public domain, and they should be in jail for life.

The highlited is not correct. The third shot is from the shotgun, it can be seen all too clearly in the video. I have to ask if someone here knows enough about shotguns, is there such a thing as a "semi-automatic" shotgun? I've always thought you had to engage some kind of action to ready the next shell, yet this one seems to let three rounds in a row go in a struggle. I'd rather not go back and rewatch this again. The part that's truly disturbing to me is the calm, nonchalant way the shooter steps away afterward. Yeah, these guys need to go to jail forever.

 

[Thermal]

The highlited is not correct. The third shot is from the shotgun, it can be seen all too clearly in the video. I have to ask if someone here knows enough about shotguns, is there such a thing as a "semi-automatic" shotgun? I've always thought you had to engage some kind of action to ready the next shell, yet this one seems to let three rounds in a row go in a struggle. I'd rather not go back and rewatch this again. The part that's truly disturbing to me is the calm, nonchalant way the shooter steps away afterward. Yeah, these guys need to go to jail forever.

Yeah, they make semi-auto shotguns. Pumps are more common and cheaper so you see them more

 

[Bogative]

Yep, just as expected, a complete and utter **** show here at the ISF – entertaining, but still a **** show.

On display is the normal prejudice, bigotry and racism towards southern white men. Lack of reading comprehension or the normal laziness of not bothering to read the links provided.

Accusing the DA of being part of the good ole boys club because he did not arrest two white guys for shooting a black guy just because they were white and the victim was black.

Accusations of the three men involved intentionally setting up an ambush so they can shoot a black guy. "****** hunting" as another poster describes it. That just points out a small portion of the absurdities in this thread.



The saddest part is how many people here actually believe this all started because some black guy was jogging down the street.


For those who are too lazy to read links provided in this thread, here's how it actually started:

Arbery had been seen recently on surveillance video in the neighborhood, according to the first caller. Neither call specifies a crime Arbery might have committed.

“There’s a guy in the house right now; it’s under construction,” the man told the dispatcher.

The man then gave her an address.

“And you said someone’s breaking into it right now?” the dispatcher asked.

“No,” the man replied, “it’s all open. It’s under construction … “

The man interrupted to say Arbery was leaving. “And there he goes right now.”

“Ok,” the dispatcher said, “What is he doing?”

“He’s running down the street,” the man said. The next sentence is garbled.

“That’s fine,” the dispatcher said. “I’ll get (police) out there. I just need to know what he was doing wrong. Was he just on the premises and not supposed to be?”

The next sentence is garbled. “And he’s been caught on camera a bunch at night. It’s kind of an ongoing thing. The man building the house has got heart issues. I think he’s not going to finish it."

 

[JoeMorgue]

Just to repeat, we have the suggestion that an unarmed black person out for a jog who gets chased by white guys with shotguns in a pickup deserves to get shot if he doesn't surrender to them.

I really want to hear one of the apologist fan-fiction their way out of that unavoidable implication of what they are suggesting.

It's either that or Bobs "Well he should have just gotten out of the way" defense.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yep, just as expected, a complete and utter **** show here at the ISF – entertaining, but still a **** show.

On display is the normal prejudice, bigotry and racism towards southern white men. Lack of reading comprehension or the normal laziness of not bothering to read the links provided.

Accusing the DA of being part of the good ole boys club because he did not arrest two white guys for shooting a black guy just because they were white and the victim was black.

Accusations of the three men involved intentionally setting up an ambush so they can shoot a black guy. "****** hunting" as another poster describes it. That just points out a small portion of the absurdities in this thread.



The saddest part is how many people here actually believe this all started because some black guy was jogging down the street.


For those who are too lazy to read links provided in this thread, here's how it actually started:

Let me begin by saying where we agree, and this time this isn't the sort of "trick opening" that I used in my first post. I agree that this thread has shown a lot or prejudice against white, southern, men, and that there is a lot of speculation on things that are not in evidence.

However, even after dismissing all of that speculation, there is the evidence that is before our eyes, and that evidence is quite damning.

If you use a gun to threaten someone, then two things happen.

1) You have committed a crime. There are some narrow exceptions, but those narrow exceptions clearly are not present in this case. For example, believing, rightly or wrongly, that the person you are threatening has recently committed a crime, is not an allowed exception.

2) You have created a reasonable fear that the person you are threatening is in danger of death or extreme bodily harm, which creates a right of self defense. There's no such thing as "mutual self defense" in the eyes of the law. If I attack someone, and they defend themselves, I don't gain a right to shoot them and claim self defense. Whatever happens, such as the death of the person I attacked, or of a bystander is a consequence of my attack, and I am considered culpable, even if I didn't actually dkill the person myself. (e. g. a famous case involved person A committing an armed robbery. Person B, a witness to the robbery, attempted to shoot person A. Person B missed, and the bullet struck person C, killing her. Person A was convicted of murdering person C, and the conviction was upheld.)

So, the only possible defense that the men in the pickup could try to mount would be that they did not actually threaten the jogger. Based on what we see in the video, that strikes me as a rather outlandish claim.

I'll leave it to the officials in Georgia to determine exactly what crime has been committed, but there has been a crime, and someone ended up dead as a result of the crime. That's usually rather rough for the defendants.


As noted before, we shouldn't rush to judgement as such. They get their day in court to explain why it made perfect sense for them to block the path of a man while brandishing a shotgun, and that it wasn't really assault to do so, but I'm pretty sure that if their lawyer is worth what he is being paid, he'll try to plea bargain it away from murder. In order to have a prayer of that succeeding, they better have some really good evidence that the guy was actually a criminal of some sort, and his crime was more serious than trespassing.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Yep, just as expected, a complete and utter **** show here at the ISF – entertaining, but still a **** show.

On display is the normal prejudice, bigotry and racism towards southern white men. Lack of reading comprehension or the normal laziness of not bothering to read the links provided.

Accusing the DA of being part of the good ole boys club because he did not arrest two white guys for shooting a black guy just because they were white and the victim was black.

Accusations of the three men involved intentionally setting up an ambush so they can shoot a black guy. "****** hunting" as another poster describes it. That just points out a small portion of the absurdities in this thread.



The saddest part is how many people here actually believe this all started because some black guy was jogging down the street.


For those who are too lazy to read links provided in this thread, here's how it actually started:

 

[Sideroxylon]

I have noticed an interesting kind of apologetics for patently **** and or dumb behaviour lately. Saw it with Trump’s disinfectant comments where the most hyperbolic or pedantically literal interpretations of the event are attacked ferociously and the clear facts of the case ignored. We see it here too. Absolutely bad takes should be held to account but I am taking issue with a dishonest propaganda game.

 

[a_unique_person]

Cornered him? In the middle of the street, outdoors, in broad daylight, with no visible fences, obstructions or other barricades in most any direction? Confronted? Yes. Cornered? Hard to see how. Sorry. Lots of other directions to go. He could have turned and ran any other direction, including the way he came. Although it's possible he thought camera car was with the rednecks. Still he could have taken off between houses where the truck would have trouble pursuing.

The car was chasing him. Did you expect him to go trespassing?