Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Thermal]

d

https://www.fox23.com/news/trending...ill-go-grand-jury/EXGDU3DAIJEHXAXW6DAYVRW6EQ/

The person in the car filming the video was allied with the two men in the pickup. Likely Arbery knew that.

Why...uhh...would he have known that? If he was just going out for a jog, and one truck was around the corner ahead of him, and the other car pulling up from 50 yards behind him...umm, why would he have 'known' they were allies?

Does he turn around to look at the car while running? (I can't actually even find a clean version of the video today). Arbery couldn't turn around and run the other way. The two men in the pickup had stopped because they knew Arbery was being driven towards them. I don't know if it's possible he could have run off the road but if it isn't safe for him to jog on the public road does anyone really think he should have gone onto private property.

Yeah...umm...that 911 call? It was reporting Arbery on someone else's private property, that the caller said was an 'ongoing thing'.

Plus if your life is in danger, cutting across someone's grass is probably a worthwhile risk. You disagree?

Good catch on the article though. Lot of new information.

 

[Bogative]

And the runner failed to avoid contact in that situation.

Not only did Arbery avoid contact with McMichael, he intentionally participated in it.

Before he goes out of the camera's frame, Arbery is moving to the right side of the truck. When he comes back into frame, his rearmost foot is approximately 4 feet away from the right edge of the road on the grass. As the camera pans back to the left, McMichael's rearmost foot is on the yellow line in the center of the road. That leaves a fairly significant gap between the two.

Instead of continuing on straight, or turning right into the open yard, he cuts back across the road and the front of the truck to engage McMichael.

 

[Thermal]

Just to repeat, we have the suggestion that an unarmed black person out for a jog who gets chased by white guys with shotguns in a pickup deserves to get shot if he doesn't surrender to them.

That's awful! Who said such a horrible thing?

*scans thread*

Hm. Nobody said such a thing. Closest I can find is when you asked me:

As skeptics, shouldn't we be asking "What did he do to deserve being shot?"

And I responded:

Absolutely. And I would say nothing to deserve it. I would also opine that if you see a truck barracading a road with armed hillbillies in Georgia...

Don't run down the street towards them unarmed and attack them with your bare hands. Something predictably bad might happen.

Nothing to deserve a horribly unjust thing happening. But it might happen anyway. Especially if you run straight into them and try to wrestle a shotgun from one.

Oh, and you say the 911 caller was lying, I assume? Arbery was just out jogging, he wasn't in the empty house, and it wasn't an 'ongoing thing'? How do you know he was lying to 911 dispatch?

Does the lying about other posters bother you at all? Seems like it should.

 

[Bogative]

[qimg]https://media3.giphy.com/media/I8nepxWwlEuqI/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29179a76ef4ad479922bc48233b71ab442787811e4&rid=giphy.gif[/qimg]

Not sure what Christian Bale has to do with anything. Does he trespass on property and in houses that does not belong to him on his afternoon jogs, as well?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Not sure what Christian Bale has to do with anything. Does he trespass on property and in houses that does not belong to him on his afternoon jogs, as well?

Murders people and gets away with it?

 

[bruto]

That's awful! Who said such a horrible thing?

*scans thread*

Hm. Nobody said such a thing. Closest I can find is when you asked me:



And I responded:



Nothing to deserve a horribly unjust thing happening. But it might happen anyway. Especially if you run straight into them and try to wrestle a shotgun from one.

Oh, and you say the 911 caller was lying, I assume? Arbery was just out jogging, he wasn't in the empty house, and it wasn't an 'ongoing thing'? How do you know he was lying to 911 dispatch?

Does the lying about other posters bother you at all? Seems like it should.

Was the 911 call made by one of the shooters?

I ask because the initial report said the shooter said he thought Arbery looked like a suspect in a surveillance video - not that he was. Is it established that Arbery had actually done anything unusual or wrong? People do occasionally step off and look inside a house under construction, just out of curiosity, but is it even established that he is the one who did that?

A lot of the speculation here is with the presumption that Arbery knew what was going on.

Of course many things are possible, but it often seems in cases like this that people fail to take into account how a person who is actually innocent will react. It's normal enough to be be offended, indignant, even obscene, when confronted with false accusation and inappropriate behavior, but it often seems that when black people react the same way, dire consequences are ascribed to their bad attitude.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Not sure what Christian Bale has to do with anything. Does he trespass on property and in houses that does not belong to him on his afternoon jogs, as well?

If this story was about trespassing, it wouldn't even be a thread.

1)It isn't,

2)No one is buying your ******** shifting of goalposts.

Being willfully obtuse might entertain you, but it isn't fooling anyone familiar with your antics.

 

[Meadmaker]

Plus if your life is in danger, cutting across someone's grass is probably a worthwhile risk. You disagree?

If it requires you to turn your back on the man with the shotgun, it could be a poor decision.

 

[Thermal]

Was the 911 call made by one of the shooters?

I ask because the initial report said the shooter said he thought Arbery looked like a suspect in a surveillance video - not that he was. Is it established that Arbery had actually done anything unusual or wrong? People do occasionally step off and look inside a house under construction, just out of curiosity, but is it even established that he is the one who did that?

Agreed, all possible. Little tiny bit conspiratorial, but certainly possible.

A lot of the speculation here is with the presumption that Arbery knew what was going on.

Of course many things are possible, but it often seems in cases like this that people fail to take into account how a person who is actually innocent will react. It's normal enough to be be offended, indignant, even obscene, when confronted with false accusation and inappropriate behavior, but it often seems that when black people react the same way, dire consequences are ascribed to their bad attitude.

Very true. I can see going out for a run and checking out a cool open house under construction. Wouldn't think twice about it.

I just watched the video again. Arbery is running straight into shotgun boy, and veers last minute to get behind the truck, and turns again without any hesitation to grab the gun. He knew what he was doing. Pretty damned ballsy, too. I likely would have been heading for cover of the trees on either side, and putting some acreage between me and the boomstick.

I can't blame him for confronting the rednecks straight on. But I've known way too many genuinely crazy armed hillbillies to charge a truckfull of them empty handed. While brazen, 'twas not with an eye for self-preservation. It's not the movies, we are not bulletproof, and the good guys don't always ride off into the sunset. Sometimes the bad guys kill you and waltz away.

 

[Thermal]

If it requires you to turn your back on the man with the shotgun, it could be a poor decision.

Quite true. At a choice between beating feet through the cover of the flanking properties, versus actually running up and grabbing the gun, with his buddies at the ready...I'm going with my fast-moving discretion on that day.

 

[Meadmaker]

Not only did Arbery avoid contact with McMichael, he intentionally participated in it.

Before he goes out of the camera's frame, Arbery is moving to the right side of the truck. When he comes back into frame, his rearmost foot is approximately 4 feet away from the right edge of the road on the grass. As the camera pans back to the left, McMichael's rearmost foot is on the yellow line in the center of the road. That leaves a fairly significant gap between the two.

Instead of continuing on straight, or turning right into the open yard, he cuts back across the road and the front of the truck to engage McMichael.

Well, yes. When threatened, there's the well known "fight or flight" response. It's not so much a choice as a reaction. He picked "fight". That didn't turn out so well, but we'll never know how "flight" would have turned out. You can't outrun a bullet.


But that doesn't really matter in terms of the legalities. He had to make that choice because someone used a gun to threaten him. That's a crime.

 

[Thermal]

Well, yes. When threatened, there's the well known "fight or flight" response. It's not so much a choice as a reaction. He picked "fight". That didn't turn out so well, but we'll never know how "flight" would have turned out. You can't outrun a bullet.

Going out on a limb: maybe no worse than the outcome chosen? No?

But that doesn't really matter in terms of the legalities. He had to make that choice because someone used a gun to threaten him. That's a crime.

I would think so. But the State of Georgia seems to allow it. Open carry laws, and the guys were legal. Hard to see on the video, but it looks like shotgun boy is holding level and perpendicular to Arbery when he runs up to the truck. The first time the gun points in Arbery's direction is when they meet at the front of the truck, when it was go time for both of them.

 

[Bogative]

If this story was about trespassing, it wouldn't even be a thread.

See, you could not be more mistaken. This story has everything to do with trespassing.

Arbery's trespassing on the day of, and trespassing previously on video, led to two individuals independently identifying him as the trespasser previously caught on video. If he would have chose not to trespass, he could have continued his routine jog through the neighborhood like he had been doing for years, according to his mother and neighbors, but he didn't. His trespassing precipitated a confrontation and now he's dead because of it.

 

[Sideroxylon]

See, you could not be more mistaken. This story has everything to do with trespassing.

Arbery's trespassing on the day of, and trespassing previously on video, led to two individuals independently identifying him as the trespasser previously caught on video. If he would have chose not to trespass, he could have continued his routine jog through the neighborhood like he had been doing for years, according to his mother and neighbors, but he didn't. His trespassing precipitated a confrontation and now he's dead because of it.

In your take some good old boys get to play cop, judge and executioner. You live in a banana republic so why not?

 

[smartcooky]

In your take some good old boys get to play cop, judge and executioner. You live in a banana republic so why not?

Yup.

The punishment is death for any black person committing any transgression above failing to address whitey as "Yezz Mazzah"!

 

[Darat]

Well, yes. When threatened, there's the well known "fight or flight" response. It's not so much a choice as a reaction. He picked "fight". That didn't turn out so well, but we'll never know how "flight" would have turned out. You can't outrun a bullet.


But that doesn't really matter in terms of the legalities. He had to make that choice because someone used a gun to threaten him. That's a crime.

Apparently he did try flight the first time.

 

[Darat]

Yup.

The punishment is death for any black person committing any transgression above failing to address whitey as "Yezz Mazzah"!

Don’t be ridiculous, he could have said Yezz Mazzah in a sarcastic manner causing emotional harm to his murderer!

 

[PhantomWolf]

See, you could not be more mistaken. This story has everything to do with trespassing.

Arbery's trespassing on the day of, and trespassing previously on video, led to two individuals independently identifying him as the trespasser previously caught on video. If he would have chose not to trespass, he could have continued his routine jog through the neighborhood like he had been doing for years, according to his mother and neighbors, but he didn't. His trespassing precipitated a confrontation and now he's dead because of it.

Let's have some fun here..

Lets assume that the person seen on the camera was indeed Arbery. Is there anything illegal about being on a building site that isn't yours?

Let's check Georgia Law.....

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-7-21

(a) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person.

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;

(2) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or

(3) Remains upon the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant to depart.

(c) For the purposes of subsection (b) of this Code section, permission to enter or invitation to enter given by a minor who is or is not present on or in the property of the minor's parent or guardian is not sufficient to allow lawful entry of another person upon the land, premises, vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft owned or rightfully occupied by such minor's parent or guardian if such parent or guardian has previously given notice that such entry is forbidden or notice to depart.

(d) A person who commits the offense of criminal trespass shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

(e) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally defaces, mutilates, or defiles any grave marker, monument, or memorial to one or more deceased persons who served in the military service of this state, the United States of America or any of the states thereof, or the Confederate States of America or any of the states thereof, or a monument, plaque, marker, or memorial which is dedicated to, honors, or recounts the military service of any past or present military personnel of this state, the United States of America or any of the states thereof, or the Confederate States of America or any of the states thereof if such grave marker, monument, memorial, plaque, or marker is privately owned or located on land which is privately owned.

So... There is no reports of damage being done to the site, so that rules out (a) and (e).

(b) (2) he didn't have a vehicle (3) there is no evidence that the rightful owner told him to leave.

So that leaves (b) (1), and there is no evidence that he was at the building site for an unlawful purpose, so by Georgia Law, no Trespass was committed.

But let's say that he did have an unlawful purpose and thus did commit criminal trespass. (d) stats that such is a misdemeanor.

Now let's look at Citizens Arrest in Georgia Law.

Georgia Code Title 17. Criminal Procedure § 17-4-60

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Hmmm, spot the problem here. For a citizen's arrest to be made based on suspicion of the person having committed a crime, then the suspect must both being trying to escape, and the offence must be a Felony. Criminal Trespass, which we have already determined didn't happen, is a misdemeanor not a Felony. Thus there is no right to enact a citizen's arrest based on the suspicion that this was the same person as seen in the video. In fact those doing so were in danger of breaking this law....

Georgia Code Title 16. Crimes and Offenses § 16-5-41

(a) A person commits the offense of false imprisonment when, in violation of the personal liberty of another, he arrests, confines, or detains such person without legal authority.
(b) A person convicted of the offense of false imprisonment shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years.

(c) Any person convicted under this Code section wherein the victim is not the child of the defendant and the victim is less than 14 years of age shall, in addition, be subject to the sentencing and punishment provisions of Code Section 17-10-6.2 .

because it is quite clear that they had no legal authority because even if he was the man on the security footage, there is no evidence of a law being broken by his mere presence on the building site, and all they had to go on was their suspicions of it being the same person, which is not enough to enact a Citizen's Arrest for a non Felony, such as Criminal Trespass.

 

[arthwollipot]

In what jurisdiction is the death penalty appropriate for trespassing anyway?

This was vigilantism, pure and simple.

 

[Sideroxylon]

In what jurisdiction is the death penalty appropriate for trespassing anyway?

This was vigilantism, pure and simple.

But property theft? You gotta be able to shoot some ****** running off with your TV, right?