Should we fear Bernie?

[TragicMonkey]

Winning against other Democrats; not against Trump.

Surely these centrists who keep accusing progressives of planning to sit out the election if a centrist candidate is chosen would not themselves do the same thing and not vote for a progressive candidate if he or she were chosen? Why, that would mean all these pleas for unity were hypocritically one-sided! Surely not.

 

[Belz...]

Surely these centrists who keep accusing progressives of planning to sit out the election if a centrist candidate is chosen would not themselves do the same thing and not vote for a progressive candidate if he or she were chosen? Why, that would mean all these pleas for unity were hypocritically one-sided! Surely not.

I'm sorry; what's the connection with my post, there?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Winning against other Democrats; not against Trump.

And this is thing I keep saying and the Bernie Bros keep alternating between looking at me like I'm crazy or launching a Jihad against me for speaking out against their King.

Asking people already on your side which out of options X,Y, and Z they like the best is an indescribably different question then asking everyone (on your side, not on your side, on the fence, disinterested entirely, etc) which out of options X, Y, Z and the totally outside context of the first question other choice they have they like best.

Bernie Sander's ability to be really popular with democrats (even ignoring that we're mistaken loud passion for broad popularity) is like the single less meaningful metric we could have right now.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm sorry; what's the connection with my post, there?

I thought you were pointing out that Sanders is winning vs other Democrats but not Trump, and therefore if he were the candidate he'd be at risk of losing. One way that would happen is if the Democrat voters who don't like Sanders don't vote for him. Which is something we hear Sanders supporters frequently accused of planning in regards to the other Democrats.

I wasn't accusing you of thinking that, btw, I was just iterating a thought that occurred based on your post.

 

[TragicMonkey]

And this is thing I keep saying and the Bernie Bros keep alternating between looking at me like I'm crazy or launching a Jihad against me for speaking out against their King.

Asking people already on your side which out of options X,Y, and Z they like the best is an indescribably different question then asking everyone (on your side, not on your side, on the fence, disinterested entirely, etc) which out of options X, Y, Z and the totally outside context of the first question other choice they have they like best.

Bernie Sander's ability to be really popular with democrats (even ignoring that we're mistaken loud passion for broad popularity) is like the single less meaningful metric we could have right now.

...A candidate's popularity with the voters shouldn't factor into the candidate selection process?

 

[Distracted1]

Specifically because he will alienate part of the electorate, you mean?

Because he will alienate what will be the key portion of the electorate.

Texas will still go red. California blue.

Sanders will cost us PA, MI, and likely even WI.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Which is something we hear Sanders supporters frequently accused of planning in regards to the other Democrats.

Well because it's true, not something we made up to make the Sanders supporters look bad.

Only 53% of Bernie Sanders supporters definitely "Will" vote for Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Yang if Bernie Sanders does not get the nomination. Other then the now mostly off the radar Yang (who's supporters polled at a similar only 50% will definitely vote for another candidate) that number is massively outside the other candidates, which all range from 78% to 90% reporting that they definitely will vote for another candidate if their preferred choice doesn't get the nomination.

The evidence is on the side of the idea that Bernie Supporters are playing "My way or the highway" not us. Which is why it's so frustrating to keep having to stop the debate every other post to reaffirm our loyalty to the "Orange Man Bad" ideal.

*https://www.newsweek.com/andrew-yan...r-nominee-democratic-unity-msnbc-poll-1485241

 

[TragicMonkey]

Well because it's true, not something we made up to make the Sanders supporters look bad.

Only 53% of Bernie Sanders supporters definitely "Will" vote for Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Yang if Bernie Sanders does not get the nomination. Other then the now mostly off the radar Yang (who's supporters polled at a similar only 50% will definitely vote for another candidate) that number is massively outside the other candidates, which all range from 78% to 90% reporting that they definitely will vote for another candidate if their preferred choice doesn't get the nomination.

The evidence is on the side of the idea that Bernie Supporters are playing "My way or the highway" not us. Which is why it's so frustrating to keep having to stop the debate every other post to reaffirm our loyalty to the "Orange Man Bad" ideal.

*https://www.newsweek.com/andrew-yan...r-nominee-democratic-unity-msnbc-poll-1485241

Then it looks like you ought to hope for Sanders to be the candidate. Unless there's a "complain your way to victory" path unlocked somehow.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Because he will alienate what will be the key portion of the electorate.

Texas will still go red. California blue.

Sanders will cost us PA, MI, and likely even WI.

How accurate were your state-by-state prophecies in 2016? I think you ought to link to them if you want us to accept your expertise in the field.

 

[Belz...]

I thought you were pointing out that Sanders is winning vs other Democrats but not Trump, and therefore if he were the candidate he'd be at risk of losing. One way that would happen is if the Democrat voters who don't like Sanders don't vote for him. Which is something we hear Sanders supporters frequently accused of planning in regards to the other Democrats.

I wasn't accusing you of thinking that, btw, I was just iterating a thought that occurred based on your post.

Right, ok. But no, I wasn't implying that people would refrain from voting for him out of spite or anything, just that him winning in the primaries doesn't mean he'll win in the general.

 

[Belz...]

Then it looks like you ought to hope for Sanders to be the candidate.

Pragmatically, yes, but doesn't that say something about progressive voters?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Right, ok. But no, I wasn't implying that people would refrain from voting for him out of spite or anything, just that him winning in the primaries doesn't mean he'll win in the general.

You weren't implying it, but I think others have been. The ones who keep complaining of "Bernie Bros", and "progressives". I think some of them will stay home sulking if Sanders is the candidate.

 

[Segnosaur]

Because he will alienate what will be the key portion of the electorate.
Texas will still go red. California blue.
Sanders will cost us PA, MI, and likely even WI.

How accurate were your state-by-state prophecies in 2016? I think you ought to link to them if you want us to accept your expertise in the field.

I think the problem is that in 2016, people weren't really LOOKING at state-wide polling, at least not in enough detail to see what was actually happening.

Now, those states are going to be examined under a microscope.

 

[Distracted1]

How accurate were your state-by-state prophecies in 2016? I think you ought to link to them if you want us to accept your expertise in the field.

Is there a way to find my posts from 2016?
let me know how, and I will show you some examples.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Pragmatically, yes, but doesn't that say something about progressive voters?

That they figured out how our political system works? If you think someone's gaming the rules you should change the rules, not bitch about being outmaneuvered because you didn't adopt the strategy first.

 

[Belz...]

You weren't implying it, but I think others have been. The ones who keep complaining of "Bernie Bros", and "progressives". I think some of them will stay home sulking if Sanders is the candidate.

Maybe, and I disagree with that from them just as much as I do from Sanders supporters. The priority should be to reverse the conservative gains, not push progressive agendas; that can be done later.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Then it looks like you ought to hope for Sanders to be the candidate. Unless there's a "complain your way to victory" path unlocked somehow.

The problem is the "If I don't get my way I'm taking my ball and going home" side isn't large enough to win us the general election. And it lets them spin their stubbornness into a "Therefore we have to do it our way" argument.

You aren't stupid. You know what winning a battle that loses you the war (or reduces your chances of winning the war so I don't have to hear "OMG U KAN'T NO THAT 4 CERTAIN!") means.

There's a difference between using the Primaries to gauge popularity; both inside and outside the Democratic party, and acquiescing to a "It's my way or the highway" faction.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You weren't implying it, but I think others have been. The ones who keep complaining of "Bernie Bros", and "progressives". I think some of them will stay home sulking if Sanders is the candidate.

See this is what I'm talking about. Despite the fact that the Sander voters provably are the ones saying that, I have to keep defending myself against accusations that's what I'm going to do, so I have to stop every other post to again reaffirm that yes I understand that the orange man is bad and any alternative is better.

 

[Segnosaur]

Only 53% of Bernie Sanders supporters definitely "Will" vote for Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, or Yang if Bernie Sanders does not get the nomination....that number is massively outside the other candidates, which all range from 78% to 90% reporting that they definitely will vote for another candidate if their preferred choice doesn't get the nomination.

Then it looks like you ought to hope for Sanders to be the candidate.

Thus we have learned the following lesson:

Extortion works.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Thus we have learned the following lesson:

Extortion works.

Finally! It only took what, ten thousand years of civilization to learn that? I think there may be a naive cloistered nun or a four year old who hasn't learned it yet.