Should we fear Bernie?

[Cabbage]

Regarding Bernie supporters that might refuse to vote for another Dem:

I plan on voting for whoever the Dem nominee is, by the way (I don't consider myself a BernieBro, but I wouldn't be surprised if some here paint me that way). But if the Dems do anything dodgy to keep Sanders from winning the primary, I can understand if many Bernie supporters simply refuse to vote for the ultimate nominee. The biggest mistake the Democratic Party might make right now is to cockblock Bernie from the nomination--That would be a much much bigger mistake than simply nominating Bernie.

 

[Garrison]

I disagree that the Sanders supporters who would refrain from voting for another Democrat are sufficient in number to actually cause that Democrat to lose to Trump. I don't think their numbers are significant; they are certainly loud, but that does not mean they are numerous. Nor is it certain anyone threatening to boycott the election actually would do so.

My personal view is that the people who stayed home did so because they were complacent, assuming it was impossible for Trump to win so they could 'boycott' a candidate they weren't terribly keen on. There can be no such delusions this time. Vote for X as the Democratic Party candidate or its another 4 years of Trump. As an outsider I would say whether its Bernie or Bloomberg quit whining and get out and vote unless you are deluded enough to think any of the Democratic potential candidates are going to be anything like as bad as four more years of Trump.

 

[Belz...]

I think it is, but I am by nature a rational optimist. Which is why I prefer Warren to the rest of the bunch.

Hey, me too! Maybe that's why we butt heads so often.

 

[Belz...]

I disagree that the Sanders supporters who would refrain from voting for another Democrat are sufficient in number to actually cause that Democrat to lose to Trump.

I think Joe's just going by the polls. Hopefully they're wrong.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I could think of a scenario in which not voting for President might be excusable.
But in November there are more people and initiatives on the ballot than just one - staying home out of protest is simply not a option.

 

[Distracted1]

Lose all of Hillary Clinton’s gains, you mean? Oh wait...

You mean her "Blue Wall", no?

Yeah, she really **** the bed there. Someone should have pointed out that she was a particularly bad candidate during the primaries- maybe we would not have then thrown away States that should have been in the bag for us.

 

[dann]

I disagree that the Sanders supporters who would refrain from voting for another Democrat are sufficient in number to actually cause that Democrat to lose to Trump.

I think it would depend on the nominated Democrat and on how that Democrat succeeded in getting nominated. Is it the kind of Democratic politician who made people think of Trump as the better alternative in 2016, i.e. somebody like Clinton or Obama, mainly interested in helping out Wall Street, and did that candidate get nominated by voters or by means on some DNC trick?
I think that the choice of disappointed Bernie Sanders supporters will depend very much on this.

 

[Belz...]

I think it would depend on the nominated Democrat and on how that Democrat succeeded in getting nominated. Is it the kind of Democratic politician who made people think of Trump as the better alternative in 2016, i.e. somebody like Clinton or Obama, mainly interested in helping out Wall Street, and did that candidate get nominated by voters or by means on some DNC trick?
I think that the choice of disappointed Bernie Sanders supporters will depend very much on this.

Trump was a better alternative to Obama?

 

[dann]

Trump was a better alternative to Obama?

No, obviously not, since Obama didn't (and couldn't) run.
Do you understand the meaning of "think of" and "somebody like"? (In particular, in the context of "mainly interested in helping out Wall Street")

 

[Belz...]

No, obviously not, since Obama didn't (and couldn't) run.

You mentioned Obama as one person Trump was thought to be better than. Who thought that and votes Democratic?

Do you understand the meaning of "think of" and "somebody like"? (In particular, in the context of "mainly interested in helping out Wall Street

Not really, no, hence my question.

 

[angrysoba]

You mean her "Blue Wall", no?

Yeah, she really **** the bed there. Someone should have pointed out that she was a particularly bad candidate during the primaries- maybe we would not have then thrown away States that should have been in the bag for us.

I think some people did....

 

[Distracted1]

I could think of a scenario in which not voting for President might be excusable.
But in November there are more people and initiatives on the ballot than just one - staying home out of protest is simply not a option.

One can vote, yet leave the President box unchecked.

In Michigan ,in 2016, 88,000 voters did that. Called "undervoting".

https://www.mlive.com/politics/2016/11/michigans_presidential_electio.html

I have been asserting for some time that that is a very important, under considered, group of voters. They are, IMO, the "lost tribe" that will win or lose this election for us.

 

[dann]

You mentioned Obama as one person Trump was thought to be better than. Who thought that and votes Democratic?

No, I wrote, "somebody like Clinton or Obama, mainly interested in helping out Wall Street."

Not really, no, hence my question.

like 1
/lʌɪk/
preposition
preposition: like
1.
having the same characteristics or qualities as; similar to.
"he used to have a car like mine"

 

[Belz...]

No, I wrote, "somebody like Clinton or Obama, mainly interested in helping out Wall Street."

Dann, are you playing games, here?

You said: "Is it the kind of Democratic politician who made people think of Trump as the better alternative in 2016, i.e. somebody like Clinton or Obama (snip)". It's implied that people thought Trump was better than Obama.

 

[theprestige]

Dann, are you playing games, here?

You said: "Is it the kind of Democratic politician who made people think of Trump as the better alternative in 2016, i.e. somebody like Clinton or Obama (snip)". It's implied that people thought Trump was better than Obama.

Someone like Obama. And yes, millions of people manifestly did think that Trump was a better option than Hillary.

 

[dann]

Millions of people still do!

 

[lobosrul5]

Because he will alienate what will be the key portion of the electorate.

Texas will still go red. California blue.

Sanders will cost us PA, MI, and likely even WI.

Do you realize that if everyone that voted Green in those states voted Dem, then Hillary Clinton is currently president. Will the Green party even run a candidate if Bernie gets the nom?

Polling is showing Bernie doing better than Biden in 2 of those 3 states, dead even in the third, at the moment.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

Look at Sunday 2/23.

One can vote, yet leave the President box unchecked.

In Michigan ,in 2016, 88,000 voters did that. Called "undervoting".

https://www.mlive.com/politics/2016/11/michigans_presidential_electio.html

I have been asserting for some time that that is a very important, under considered, group of voters. They are, IMO, the "lost tribe" that will win or lose this election for us.

Would be interesting to know who those 88,000 people voted for in the down ticket races. Were they people who voted dem, but refused to vote for Clinton, or voted rep but refused to vote for Trump?

 

[Distracted1]

Do you realize that if everyone that voted Green in those states voted Dem, then Hillary Clinton is currently president. Will the Green party even run a candidate if Bernie gets the nom?

Polling is showing Bernie doing better than Biden in 2 of those 3 states, dead even in the third, at the moment.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

Look at Sunday 2/23.



Would be interesting to know who those 88,000 people voted for in the down ticket races. Were they people who voted dem, but refused to vote for Clinton, or voted rep but refused to vote for Trump?

I think they are conservative-leaning voters who could not bring themselves to cast a vote for Trump.
Likely they feel the same way about him this time, and will do the same (or vote third Party) in the 2020 election Unless (and it is a big "Unless") The Democrats run someone so far left that they feel stopping them to be imperative, someone like a Socialist.

 

[Horatius]

I think they are conservative-leaning voters who could not bring themselves to cast a vote for Trump.
Likely they feel the same way about him this time, and will do the same (or vote third Party) in the 2020 election Unless (and it is a big "Unless") The Democrats run someone so far left that they feel stopping them to be imperative, someone like a Socialist.

Or unless they've been paying attention for the last three years. This time four years ago, people were still thinking, "Sure, he sucks now, but he'll "become presidential" once the majesty of the office gets to him!" There's no one who thinks that now. If you're doing the math on what will or will not motivate these people to vote, you have to give at least some weight to Trump himself.

 

[Distracted1]

Or unless they've been paying attention for the last three years. This time four years ago, people were still thinking, "Sure, he sucks now, but he'll "become presidential" once the majesty of the office gets to him!" There's no one who thinks that now. If you're doing the math on what will or will not motivate these people to vote, you have to give at least some weight to Trump himself.

No, they were thinking: "he sucks now, and will always suck- but I cannot bring myself to vote for HRC either- even though I can tacitly live with her presidency".

We are getting ready to take away their ability to tacitly accept a Democratic victory if we shove a candidate in their faces that is even more unacceptable to them than Trump.

ETA: Keep in mind, these are people who showed up to vote on downballot Issues. They are not politically immature, they know where they stand on "Socialism vs. Free Market", and have already considered the "Sanders is not a socialist because" arguments.
They have principles that kept them from going for Trump in 2016, but they definitely would have gone for any of the other Republican hopefuls. The line that kept them from going Trump last time is thin, and it will not hold again if we give them Sanders this time around.