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Therapist says if you're an atheist you should lie to your kids about God.

carlitos said:
I was one of the two. You'd have to search my posts in one of the continuation "evidence for why we know the writers of the new testament told the truth" (sic) threads.


ETA - on topic:
Actually, one of the contributing factors was when I caught myself telling a child how "when people are still talking about you and quoting you 2,000 years later, then maybe we can discuss how Jesus was wrong" or something like that. My skeptical brain knew that this was a fallacy, and DOCs threads were he first time I had applied skepticism to the New Testament since I had been a kid in Sunday School. So I don't believe in lying to children about God, because they might learn bad logic in the process, since religion only has apologetics to defend it.


EEEETTTTTTAAAAA - try this.
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Well since you brought in a past post of yours, I should be allowed to give the response I made to that post:

If what you say is true, don't blame me, blame Norman Geisler the author of over 60 apologetic books. And you can also blame apologist (and former skeptic) Ralph Muncaster author of the 605 page book "Examine the Evidence". And also Josh Mcdowell author of many apologetic and Christian books. For the most part I'm just the messenger of their books and some other websites.

And if what you say is true, can you tell me some of the exact posts that have made you lose your faith in God.
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Muhammad said he was just a messenger. A messenger from an angel, who spoke for Great God Almighty.

But DOC, oh DOC. To be the messenger of Muncaster and McDowell.
 
DOC said:
The title of this thread contains the wording "if you're an atheist". If the author (Phil Zuckerman) of the above article is an atheist he would still be acting untruthful by saying such things to the child as "maybe we float in the clouds" or "maybe we return as another life-form" after death. That sounds more like an agnostic than a true atheist.
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You can describe Phil Zuckerman as an atheist, an agnostic or a cultural Christian. Never mind, he's one of the best. You should read his book Society without God (GoodReads), which is about secularization in my part of the world.
And please don't take his words out of context. You make him sound as if he believes in reincarnation!

“I’ve spent a long time thinking about that question. I’ve read a lot about it. I’ve studied many religions. And my own conclusion is that there is no God out there. It’s just us, floating on this planet in space, creating meaning through the relationships we have, the causes we take up, the art we produce, the suffering we alleviate, and the awe and wonder we experience being alive.”
(...)
“No one really knows what happens after we die. Maybe we live on in some other realm that we can’t even fathom. Maybe we become one with the stars. Maybe we float in the clouds. Maybe some part of us is reborn in another life-form. We just don’t know. It is a mystery.”
“Death is like a deep sleep that you never wake up from. There is no suffering when you are dead. It is just like a silent, peaceful nothingness. It is so sad that Grandpa died, and we will always miss him, and so we need to do things to remember him and keep him alive in our hearts.”
“Everything that lives also dies. Everything. Flowers, ants, dolphins, and people. Some people think that it is the painful finality of death that makes life have meaning and prods us to live as fully as we can while we can.”
Should You Lie to Your Kids About Believing in God? (Psychology Today, Dec. 30, 2019)
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We do float in the skies! (And we get up there much faster if our remains are burned.) Parts of us do appear in other life-forms, our atoms and molecules are recycled. (It's a stretch to call it "reborn", but still ...) And Sagan was the one who told us that we are already made of star stuff!
 
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When a child has asked me about death, I have asked it how it was before it was born, and then I have followed it up with "that's our best guess of how it is after death".

This has never caused a problem, and the children have accepted it as a good and credible reply.
 
steenkh said:
When a child has asked me about death, I have asked it how it was before it was born, and then I have followed it up with "that's our best guess of how it is after death".

This has never caused a problem, and the children have accepted it as a good and credible reply.
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Yup, that's what I told my 3.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I so we are firmly in the "My God makes perfect sense and clarifies things for Children, other Gods are confusing and would give the little tykes unrecoverable existential criseses" and "God and Santa are different because God is superserious I'm for realizes guys"

Santa is lot more serious for children then God is to adults who aren't seen as mentally ill.
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Santa also has the advantage of not advocating oppression of women and homosexuals, doesn't care who believes or doesn't believe in him, and never condemns anyone to Hell. Heck, the worst thing he does is encourage kids to be good by only giving presents to good kids.
 
welshdean said:
Is there any other 'Uncle Ernie'?
My point being, if it behoves Doc to lie to a child about Auntie Doris, sitting on a cloud, being massaged by angels, then what if an absolute bastard like Townshends 'Ernie' dies? Would you, Doc, tell the same poor child that his uncle is having hot lava poured down his 'japs-eye' for all eternity*?


*or some other painful punishment.
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Reminds me of Julia Sweeney's conversation with mormons or Jehova's Witnesses or whatever they were.

Them: "...so when you die you retain your body in Heaven and it will be fully restored!"
JS: "uhm, so, I don't have a uterus because I had cancer a few years ago, does that mean that if I die and go to Heaven I will have my uterus back?"
Them: "Yes!"
JS: "I don't want it back!"
 
DOC said:
Well if you are an atheist and you think you'd be lying to your child if you chose any God it seems it would be better to at least choose the God (like the Christian God) that has some historical and other evidence to apply to it. Then as the child got older, they would at least have some historical and other evidence to back up their belief if they did indeed choose to disagree with you and believe in God.

Of course if you don't want your child to believe in God as an adult it would be better to promote a God that doesn't have much evidence to support the belief in it.
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I know I’m pages behind, but I wanted to report that I took this advice and it worked well.

The local book store had some very good books on Greek gods and my kids really dove into them. They have a much better appreciation for the place of gods and religion in society thanks to that deep study.
 
See, I got into trouble with this. I too lied about gods to my nieces, but I foolishly chose the Aztec pantheon, and now my nieces are in trouble at school for sacrificing their most popular classmate to keep the sun running.
 
DOC said:
Well if you are an atheist and you think you'd be lying to your child if you chose any God it seems it would be better to at least choose the God (like the Christian God) that has some historical and other evidence to apply to it. Then as the child got older, they would at least have some historical and other evidence to back up their belief if they did indeed choose to disagree with you and believe in God.

Of course if you don't want your child to believe in God as an adult it would be better to promote a God that doesn't have much evidence to support the belief in it.
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Dr. Keith said:
I know I’m pages behind, but I wanted to report that I took this advice and it worked well.

The local book store had some very good books on Greek gods and my kids really dove into them. They have a much better appreciation for the place of gods and religion in society thanks to that deep study.
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I realize that the Greek and subsequent Roman gods of antiquity could be interesting to read about but the growth of Christianity pretty much put them on the ash heap of history.

One of the reasons why that happened can maybe be explained by what Thomas Jefferson said about this person (Christ) that Christians believe is God in the flesh.

Jefferson said this about the teachings of Christ:

"{they're} the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man."

So maybe it might be better to tell your kids about a possible God who offered humanity what Jefferson said were the most sublime and benevolent code of morals ever offered.

And yes I know Jefferson had the opinion that the miracles of Christ could not be supported by reason but then again I have a feeling Jefferson (who could read Greek French and Latin), didn't believe in the existence of the Greek gods either. So given the choice, why not go with a god that some say offered the most sublime and benevolent code of morals ever given humanity and also go with a god that is still relevant in our society today unlike the Greek gods.
 
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DOC said:
And yes I know Jefferson had the opinion that the miracles of Christ could not be supported by reason but then again I have a feeling Jefferson (who could read Greek French and Latin), didn't believe in the existence of the Greek gods either. So given the choice, why not go with a god that some say offered the most sublime and benevolent code of morals ever given humanity and also go with a god that is still relevant in our society today unlike the Greek gods.
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Since the Christian gods aren't divine by your own admission, why not go with Shiva, Vishnu and Krishna? They have so much evidence for their axistence that it wouldn't really be a lie to tell your children about them.
 
Why not John Frum? We have much more immediate testimony to his existence. Until fairly recently, there were people who claimed to have known him. Some said that he was black, others that he was white. Why couldn't he be both? Would that be so hard for a god? Some said he wore a"big hat."

Yes! Tell your children that in the life to come* they will ALL wear the Hat of Frum, and revel in his cargo!

* In the time of the village government, and after 1,000 years, in the government of the ancestors.
Wan day e com, ollim witepellah go buggerimup pinis.
 
What's with the obsession with Thomas Jefferson? The man was a slaveholder who created a society that by today's terms is less democratic than most nations on earth.

Not to mention that he would not have known that the ideals you so taut were long established in many philosophies way before Christianity appeared.

So if that is anything to go by the Hindu, Buddhist or Confucian teachings would be even BETTER to use than your religion.
 
DOC said:
Recent events tell us Hinduism and Buddhism are not as peace loving as people think:

From the article: A Short History of Violent Buddhism by Kallie Szczepanski

"In more recent times, unfortunately, Buddhist monks in other countries have also encouraged and even participated in wars - particular wars against religious minority groups in predominantly Buddhist nations."

https://www.thoughtco.com/short-history-of-violent-buddhism-195794

And don't forget Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu militant who advocated Hindu supremacy.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/the-violent-toll-of-hindu-nationalism-in-india
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Thank Krishna that Christians have never fought religious wars or killed anyone in the name of their religion, eh DOC?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
What's with the obsession with Thomas Jefferson? The man was a slaveholder who created a society that by today's terms is less democratic than most nations on earth.

Not to mention that he would not have known that the ideals you so taut were long established in many philosophies way before Christianity appeared.

So if that is anything to go by the Hindu, Buddhist or Confucian teachings would be even BETTER to use than your religion.
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Recent events tell us Hinduism and Buddhism are not as peace loving as people think:

From the article: A Short History of Violent Buddhism by Kallie Szczepanski

"In more recent times, unfortunately, Buddhist monks in other countries have also encouraged and even participated in wars - particular wars against religious minority groups in predominantly Buddhist nations."

https://www.thoughtco.com/short-hist...uddhism-195794

And don't forget Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu militant who advocated Hindu supremacy.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/the-violent-toll-of-hindu-nationalism-in-india
 
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Don't forget Heaven's Gate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)

Branch Davidians: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidians

Jonestown: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

Ground for God's Gospel: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

I think Christianity is the very last religion I would want to lie about. I would tell my children exactly how horrible it is. Do you lie about Christianity, DOC? Don't you agree that the gods of Christianity are the worst imaginable?

Krishna, Vishnu and Shiva should be the gods that we tell our children about.
 
It is almost as if the moral teachings of any religion becomes irrelevant as soon as the opportunity to commit an atrocity presents itself.
 
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