Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?
- Thread starter Matthew Best
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Aah sorry
Know what quote you mean now.
It was a joke about Greta's speech saying her childhood has been stolen so we don't know what she will remember from when she was 15.
Didn't think it would be taken that seriously
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
People are already saying that, and with clear, incontrovertible evidence to back it up.
And the rate of change is increasing.
Not just the change, but the rapidity with which it is happening.
"... since I was 15 ..." was half a century ago for me. I can say with perfect honesty, "Oh, my how the climate has changed, since I was 15."
My kids are under 40, and they can already say they have seen more climate change, more global warming than I had by the time I was their age. Also with complete, documented, peer-reviewed accuracy.
They can already say, "Oh, my how the climate has changed, since I was 15.". They won't have to wait another quarter century.
Their kids will likely have seen still more, still faster climate change by the time they are 15 than either their parents or their grandparents. And those kids haven't even been born yet.
bobdroege7
Illuminator
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Note that I didn't call you dumb either.
Did you note that I posted graphs?
Do you know the difference between a graph and a statistic?
Plucks two years out of thin air?
You think they update those hardiness maps every year?
Maybe do more than cursory research before you post.
The link you posted shows a heat comparison of a country fro 2009 and 2015
Forgive me for not knowing I have to try to hunt your point down browsing for 2 hours
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
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Speaking for myself, I haven't encountered any evidence personally for increasingly rapid climate change over the course of my lifetime so far. Just being honest. Everything feels the same with regard to climate as when I was a child. I'm in my 40s. I'm not saying it hasn't changed, but I sure haven't noticed. I literally would have no idea anything was different if people weren't talking about it.
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You want their generation to question climate change and be climate skeptics.
I feel so sorry to see that reads like you have so much trouble accepting the changes to our lives and ambitions we ALL have to make because the generations before Thunberg's didn't change enough.
I see the necessary changes as an envitalising chance to question myself.
An exciting chance to learn many new things;
to see many new inventions and uses of technology;
to learn from cultures and communities or subcultures I've never focused on;
to discover research that dramatically changed thought in one field and is now essential to understanding something that wasn't foreseeable;
to interact in new ways with friends old and new.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bobdroege7
Illuminator
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It does not show a heat comparison.
It shows a change in climate.
That's the point.
Hardiness zones are climate, which plants grow best in what areas.
When we're talking climate change, encountering evidence and personally feeling or noticing a difference aren't the same thing. The weather changes every day and every year, obviously, and it will depend on the part of the world you're in.
I have personally noticed changes in temperature in my lifetime. Where I am, they've been quite enjoyable, actually. The summers are a little hotter than they used to be; they tend to last a little longer, too.
Nowadays, Danes only very rarely have the opportunity to go iceskating outdoors in the winter the way we did in the 1950s and '60s. The few exceptions are cooled down artificially like my local ice rink. (I wonder how much the use of power for that purpose contributes to global warming.)
And Statens Istjeneste, the so-called Ice Service of the Danish State, no longer exists. I used to work there as a student in the 1970s, so that's also very personal. The Danish icebreakers were retired in 2010 because they're never needed nowadays. The Danish waters don't freeze over anymore.
The meteorologists have also noticed the change:
You shouldn't expect to feel or even notice "the increase in the global mean temperature" personally. It's not a local phenomenon, obviously.
IsThisTheLife
Banned
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Here's a facile question; when was the longest period in Earth's history when climate didn't change?
You AGW freaks should check out some actual science (as distinct from what you hear from self-styled "climate scientists") in the form of what ice-core and dendrochronological records show.
They allow temperatures to be inferred year by year for the last 12,000 years (and more). Quite eye-opening, but then there are are none so blind .....
You AGW freaks should check out some actual science (as distinct from what you hear from self-styled "climate scientists") in the form of what ice-core and dendrochronological records show.
They allow temperatures to be inferred year by year for the last 12,000 years (and more). Quite eye-opening, but then there are are none so blind .....
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
You just love pulling stuff out of your butt..
Quote any statement I have made that suggests I don't think the climate is changing..
I can find several where I acknowledge that it is..
Anyone can look at the data and know there has been and will continue to be change..
World of Change: Global Temperatures
Where have you been that you personally notice it and not just read about it?
Have you relocated to higher ground? Thrown away any jackets?
What do you consider drastic, and what changes are expected to happen in the next 15 years that Thunberg's generation will consider 'drastic'..
Will they wake up one day, look out the window and say" OMG The climate has changed ! Where's my rubber boots? ".
Or will it be gradual, and something we can adapt to as it happens, and not some overnight thing that makes us proclaim " My childhood has been stolen ! " ?
How about some facts without dismissing it and calling me the " D " word..
Can we use the dictionary this time?
dras·tic
/ˈdrastik/
adjective
likely to have a strong or far-reaching effect; radical and extreme.
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I doubt this generation is going to be able to pull it off either. For last friday's climate strike, a Vancouver group Sustainabiliteens, the same group that hosted Greta Thunberg when she came to Vancouver in October had their "protest" which consisted of a dance party and a clothing swap.
A dance party ? Oh really. As for a clothing swap, well kiddos, the concept of buying second hand clothes has been around for some time now, consider yourselves lucky that your parents had enough money to buy you new clothes when you were children.
Oh, and they published some fluffy sounding but utterly meaningless drivel on their Facebook page.
“We are coming together to prove we have solutions for the climate crisis,” the group said on the Facebook event page. “This crisis is not the fault of individual actions, but rather society’s failure to recognize our interconnectedness with each other and the earth — as exemplified by Black Friday.”
So a big huggy dancefest, a clothing swap and the the climate crisis will magically solve itself, at 150 beats per minute.
ThatGuy11200
Muse
Of course we can adapt to it. Adaptation in this sense would be building bigger and bigger sea defenses or moving the populations of whole cities to higher ground; people around the equator moving to places that can actually sustain human life year-round, once summer temperatures reach lethal levels; moving agriculture to places that get enough/don't get too much rain when precipitation regimes change; better flood defenses around rivers, due to a greater number of flash floods, caused by greater precipitation hitting dry ground and running straight into rivers. As well as myriad other adaptations.
How expensive would these adaptations be? I have no idea. But unless our societies don't want those issues to get worse, that cost would be on top of the changes they will still need to make to prevent even higher temperatures further in the future. Better to make those changes to our society now, i.e. adapt to the unsustainable situation as it is now, rather than adapting to an uncertain, changing climate in future as it happens.
Dear Humans
I sire you all cried your eyes out when you saw the footage to the Amazon rain forest burning this past summer and I'm sure you all raised your fists in anger at the parasitic greedheads when you saw the photos of those logging clear cuts but let me ask you this.
Did you ever consider the wisdom of murdering and actually living, breathing tree for your Christmas celebration ?
I was reading on a Reddit forum where these people I thought were concerned about the environment were discussing which type of Christmas tree corpse best suited their tastes, like they were discussing a hunting trip to Africa and wondering whether it's "better" to shoot a lion, tiger or cheetah.
And then it dawned on me, Christmas trees are the same shape as a Klansman's hood, so there may be some dogwhistling going on there. I don't know, it requires more research but since this is the first weekend of December and tree "harvesting" has begun, time is of the essence.
It' from the bottom of my cold black heart I urge you to consider your possible climatically hostile actions and implore you to instead decorate a houseplant instead. The planet, the climate, will thank you for it.
Yours truly
The Grinch
I sire you all cried your eyes out when you saw the footage to the Amazon rain forest burning this past summer and I'm sure you all raised your fists in anger at the parasitic greedheads when you saw the photos of those logging clear cuts but let me ask you this.
Did you ever consider the wisdom of murdering and actually living, breathing tree for your Christmas celebration ?
I was reading on a Reddit forum where these people I thought were concerned about the environment were discussing which type of Christmas tree corpse best suited their tastes, like they were discussing a hunting trip to Africa and wondering whether it's "better" to shoot a lion, tiger or cheetah.
And then it dawned on me, Christmas trees are the same shape as a Klansman's hood, so there may be some dogwhistling going on there. I don't know, it requires more research but since this is the first weekend of December and tree "harvesting" has begun, time is of the essence.
It' from the bottom of my cold black heart I urge you to consider your possible climatically hostile actions and implore you to instead decorate a houseplant instead. The planet, the climate, will thank you for it.
Yours truly
The Grinch
The trees are planted and grown as a cash crop in some areas. After harvest the field is replanted.
Says the guy once paid to cut several hundred a year some years ago.
The same as pulp wood forests all planted in rows for easy machine harvesting.
The Amazon jungle is not, that needs protection.
Says the guy once paid to cut several hundred a year some years ago.
The same as pulp wood forests all planted in rows for easy machine harvesting.
The Amazon jungle is not, that needs protection.
The trees are planted and grown as a cash crop in some areas. After harvest the field is replanted.
Says the guy once paid to cut several hundred a year some years ago.
The same as pulp wood forests all planted in rows for easy machine harvesting.
The Amazon jungle is not, that needs protection.
Says the guy once paid to cut several hundred a year some years ago.
The same as pulp wood forests all planted in rows for easy machine harvesting.
The Amazon jungle is not, that needs protection.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
I apologize. You have indeed acknowledged climate change. I blame my comments on last night’s rum, but that is not an excuse. I was wrong.
On one hand your position is that climate change will continue to occur, but not to an extent that people will notice the effects:
“How many will be saying “ Oh, my how the climate has changed, since I was 15..”?”
On the other hand you offer the opinion that people will have to adapt to climate change:
“Or will it be gradual, something that we can adapt to as it happens?”
Climate change has been gradual for 20,000 years. Current climate change by comparison is drastic. It is indeed likely to “have strong and far reaching effects”.
If climate change requires people to adapt then the changes must be noticeable.
Why do you think that it is required to make personal changes in order to be aware that climate changes are occurring? Are climate scientists and media videos and reports so unreliable that personal experience is required to confirm their evidence?
As for adapting, no doubt many adaptions will occur. Particularly in first world countries that have the resources.
There are areas of the planet where adaption will not be possible and the only option will be mass migration. Locations such as low lying Pacific islands, and Bangladesh, will be subject to catastrophic flooding due to sea level rise. Farming area in Australia are experiencing drought that they will likely never recover from. California wildfire seasons get longer each year with increased destruction of homes.
From reading your posts here it is rather difficult to determine exactly where you stand on the topic of climate change. For me this has a lot do do with you interspersing hyperbolic statements in with a lot of otherwise quite sensible comment. I suspect that if you quit the hyperbole we might find that we agree on more than is currently apparent.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Exactly. If the trees were not farmed they would not be left to grow to maturity. The fields instead would be planted with some other more profitable crop. There is no net gain or loss to the number of trees in the world that can be connected to Christmas trees.
Unfortunately it is quite common here for posters to not think through the real world implications of their posts when they think they are being witty.
Yes, I'm aware of how the industry operates but I guess, that in the grand scheme of things, nothing much is going to change. not in the next 11 years anyway.
Everybody is just going to demand that something be done yet push back against anything that involves any sort of lifestyle change except if it's something lame, like a government mandated $0.25 surcharge on a disposable coffee cup.
Not an awful lot anyone in the English speaking world can do to control what happens in the Amazon.
Good thing I haven't proposed a ban ( a policy solution ) on gas powered leaf blowers.
Give us some solutions to the current climate crisis then while keeping in mind that we only have 11 years and the status quo has been an utter, dismal failure.
Think we can dance dance dance those GHGs away ?
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