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House Impeachment Inquiry

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JoeMorgue said:
Okay and outside of a blustering "You can't do that!" what exactly is the plan when the Republicans, inevitably, turn the whole thing into a Dog and Pony show about the Bidens (and you know the other top Democratic candidates are going to get drawn into it as well) anyway?

Angrily tell them "But you can't do that!" again?

The Impeachment is the best re-election campaign Donald Trump could have asked for.
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Actually if they talk out of turn, then under the rules, they can be frog marched out by the Master of Arms and then stuck in the cells under the House for contempt. So yeah, a little bit more than, "But you can't do that."
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
he has also given card-blanche for GOP gerrymandering without limits.
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While OT, this isn't actually correct. The SCotUS ruling wasn't that there was carte blanche (not card-blanche) but rather that the Federal Court System did not have Jurisdiction in the matter, meaning it was up to the States to determine their own rulings individually. Basically they said, "As a part of the Federal Government, we don't have the right to tell every State Government what they can and can't do in the matter, so if you want a ruling, well that is up to each individual State Court to do it for that particular State."
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah there going full speed toward the... absolutely nothing that is going to happen when they hand it over to Senate.

There's a difference between doing something and doing something.

There's no actual political or legal end to this that's going to effect Trump and it's not hurting his popularity.

Maybe they should of listened when everybody who wasn't a Lame Duck Democrat with nothing to lose from the majority of street level random nobodies to most of their own party said "We don't want an impeachment and it's not going to change our mind."

Note: I've already got the "Oh no you don't understand this is totally building to something..." speech memorized, so nobody bother with it.
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JoeMorgue said:
Because that's what the public had said in every poll before the Impeachment and in every poll after it.

But let's not do anything crazy like listen to the voters in politics.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/politics/impeachment-polling-public-support/index.html
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The problem is your position ends up being: The President can commit as many crimes as he wants as long as he remains popular.

I suppose this will be a test if that is true, but it isn't how Congress should operate.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
The problem is your position ends up being: The President can commit as many crimes as he wants as long as he remains popular.

I suppose this will be a test if that is true, but it isn't how Congress should operate.
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He can do anything he wants now, not because he's "popular" per se but because he played the system and put people in every position of power that could oppose him. Having people in positions that can only jump up and down and shake their fist at him but not do anything only makes it better for him and his "We elected a troll to watch him troll" base.

That's why I get so pissed that I get so much grief over this. Everybody agrees that Trump can do whatever he wants.

The question is whether or not we should waste energy on counter-productive "bUt iT's a mORAL iMperatiVE!" actions that make him being re-elected more likely.

Impeachment being unpopular and not changing anyone's mind isn't some "Oh you can't know for sure" guess I pulled out of nothing.

Again I ask this question. If right now the Democrats didn't actually think they could beat Trump in 2020 and wanted to set the stage not for a win narrative but a "lookit us we did everything we could and still lost it's not our fault WE'RE NOT TO BLAME!" narrative what, exactly, would they be doing differently? Because that narrative flows a LOT better for me then the other one.

I care about Trump losing, not the Democrats winning and that's not the same thing.

But yeah I'll "keep waiting" for the Democrats to get done playing 3d chess 400 steps ahead, to stop "Planning ahead so we're never actually doing anything right now." And I get a feeling I'm gonna be waiting for a while. Like a "right about the time Jabba actually does prove immortality" while.

Anyone doesn't like it? Fine, prove me wrong. Let me know when something happens.
 
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acbytesla said:
Does anyone believe if Rudy actually had dirt on Joe Biden he wouldn't have presented it as of yet?
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Stacyhs said:
I don't think he has any 'dirt' but if he did, he'd wait until Biden was the Dem nominee and then produce it as a Sept. or Oct. surprise. Why waste it if Biden turns out not to be Trump's opponent in the 2020 race?
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I think that would have been true before the whistleblower, or his Russian friends were arrested and indicted.

CapelDodger said:
Not for a second.
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But now I agree with the dodger.
 
JoeMorgue said:
He can do anything he wants now, not because he's "popular" per se but because he played the system and put people in every position of power that could oppose him.
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He didn't appoint the Senate. That is where the "can do anything" comes from, in the context of crimes.

Having people in positions that can only jump up and down and shake their fist at him but not do anything only makes it better for him and his "We elected a troll to watch him troll" base.

That's why I get so pissed that I get so much grief over this. Everybody agrees that Trump can do whatever he wants.

The question is whether or not we should waste energy on counter-productive "bUt iT's a mORAL iMperatiVE!" actions that make him being re-elected more likely.

Impeachment being unpopular and not changing anyone's mind isn't some "Oh you can't know for sure" guess I pulled out of nothing.

Again I ask this question. If right now the Democrats didn't actually think they could beat Trump in 2020 and wanted to set the stage not for a win narrative but a "lookit us we did everything we could and still lost it's not our fault WE'RE NOT TO BLAME!" narrative what, exactly, would they be doing differently? Because that narrative flows a LOT better for me then the other one.

I care about Trump losing, not the Democrats winning and that's not the same thing.
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I understand what you believe about the electoral effects of impeachment (and it's Pelosi's position as well as that of the Democratic leadership in the House), but you are essentially advocating that we should ignore the rule of law, to the benefit of Presidential Supremacy, in the name of hopeful political expediency. Ignoring how harmful to the Democrats it would be if the President was completely enabled to commit crimes. Sometimes you are faced with bad and worse options.

But yeah I'll "keep waiting" for the Democrats to get done playing 3d chess 400 steps ahead, to stop "Planning ahead so we're never actually doing anything right now." And I get a feeling I'm gonna be waiting for a while. Like a "right about the time Jabba actually does prove immortality" while.

Anyone doesn't like it? Fine, prove me wrong. Let me know when something happens.
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They are holding impeachment hearings, but that is not doing anything? Right, because in your view the only "something" would be something that would, in your mind, hurt Trump's re-election odds. But as always, I would guess you would proclaim that finding that "something" is not your job, so obviously the Democrats are failing to find that "something".
 
Trebuchet said:
I think maybe he's setting up a dementia defense.

Oh, and the comments on his actual tweet are hilarious.
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From the comments:

picture.php
 
smartcooky said:
Wow! Just wow! If this is confirmed, then that puts a crapload of Nunes comments and behaviour sharply into context.

One thing though, are we sure that the person Viktor Shokin met with was Nunes, and not his cow?
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We need to milk this thing for all it's worth before he mooooooves to put it out to pasture.
 
The Norseman said:
We need to milk this thing for all it's worth before he mooooooves to put it out to pasture.
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Yeah...he might have a beef with that but it behooves us to find out the truth. Maybe Sen. Will Herd* should be put in charge of looking into it.

*Before certain members have a conniption fit, I know it's 'Hurd'.
 
Stacyhs said:
Why?
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Because the jig is up. You don't think the world hasn't been turning over every rock on Biden?.

Rudy is now under pressure. The President is being impeached because he asked the Ukrainians to investigate Biden. The time for Rudy to save himself was 2 months ago. Not in 8 months.

I also don't frankly buy that Rudy has the skills to get real dirt on Biden. Trump called him a cybersecurity expert. He's not. Rudy hasn't been a prosecutor for two decades. I would guess that all Rudy has are unsubstantiated rumors. He's a bs artist, just like Trump.
 
Oh the horror!

Vanity Fair: TRUMP ATTACKS YOVANOVITCH FOR EGREGIOUS CRIME: “SHE WOULDN’T HANG MY PICTURE”
Additional accounts suggest the president’s claims aren’t even true.
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:eye-poppi

Donald Trump renewed his attacks on Marie Yovanovitch Friday, this time with a new grievance. “She wouldn’t hang my picture in the embassy!” the president vented in a phone interview with Fox & Friends. “This was an Obama person, didn’t want to hang my picture in the embassy.” To drive his point home, he added, “This was not an angel, this woman.”

Considering this is a guy who used money from his own charity to pay for a portrait of himself, it was perhaps unwise of Yovanovitch to underestimate Trump’s obsession with his own image. Except, according to Yovanovitch’s legal team, the whole story is false. ...
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Tsukasa Buddha said:
He didn't appoint the Senate. That is where the "can do anything" comes from, in the context of crimes.
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The Republican Senate, headed by McConnell.

Please sell me on any scenario where the Senate is going to do anything in any context less out there an episode of the Twilight Zone.

I understand what you believe about the electoral effects of impeachment (and it's Pelosi's position as well as that of the Democratic leadership in the House), but you are essentially advocating that we should ignore the rule of law, to the benefit of Presidential Supremacy, in the name of hopeful political expediency. Ignoring how harmful to the Democrats it would be if the President was completely enabled to commit crimes. Sometimes you are faced with bad and worse options.
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People keep throwing this "moral imperative" argument out as if it's a blank check to ignore all reality and act morally superior while doing it.

How is handing Trump 2020 the "moral thing" to do because we can't let him "get away" with his actions?

Right, because in your view the only "something" would be something that would, in your mind, hurt Trump's re-election odds.
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Errrr... yeah. One day I'll get explanation how that's some insane fringe belief I should be shouting a pigeons in the park while wearing a tinfoil hat.

We're all either actively (as in just fully admit it) or passively (as in can't give me an actual realistic scenario where it's gonna happen) agreeing that Trump isn't going to be removed fromm office. Again that's what I'm most angry about. We all agree we're doing nothing.

Trump not winning in 2020 is literally the only way we can get rid of him that doesn't require a series of miracles so unlikely we might as well be invoking God. And impeaching him sends those odds into the basement.

No, I don't want to hear "but you can't know that for sure!" I'm extrapolating from the data as much as anyone else and getting tired of that line from people who see it as an absolutely metaphysical certainty that the 3,475th time we prove Trump did a bad thing that he's already openly admitted he's done is absolutely with certainty going to the thing that takes him down because "the rule book says that's how it has to work" or cause a statistically meaningful amount of his followers to abandon him.

But the good thing about your side of the argument is if you're right none of use are going to care because Trump is gone and if you're wrong none of us are going to care because we're going to have much, much, much bigger problems to deal with.

Either way my only "win" is going to be being able to be the "I told ya so" guy and I don't get a lot of pleasure out of that.

If I'm wrong dance the "I told you so" dance on my head until the cows come home, I care not.

Just know if I'm right I won't do the same, because there's a lot more at stake here.
 
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