MORE Act. Legal Weed?

[rjh01]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/

In other words it is unlikely to kill you or others. Certain other, legal, drugs have the nasty habit of causing fatal diseases.

 

[3point14]

Hello goose, may I introduce you to this gander?

To be honest, I don't think any of us expected consistency, did we?

 

[3point14]

You hang around with Democrats, you're not going to know many Republicans. I use to play a lot of golf. Too much. I even at one time belonged to a Country Club. I was surrounded by Republicans who didn't have a clue that I was a Democrat. On the same note, you hang around with people who smoke pot, the fewer the people you know that don't. His impression was anecdotal was it not?

I've admitted that my opinions have been informed by my experiences and this is imperfect data. I'm not saying that Ron was wrong but there was maybe a variable he wasn't accounting for.

Yeah, you watch 8 brothers and sisters morph into morons who care more about getting high than anything else and get back to me.

The irony! It burns!

 

[Roger Ramjets]

In other words it is unlikely to kill you or others. Certain other, legal, drugs have the nasty habit of causing fatal diseases.

So do certain other illegal drugs.

But I see where you are coming from, if a legal drug kills then why should one that doesn't be illegal? And I agree. It's not fair. We could make them all legal, but some drugs are really dangerous. So the only reasonable solution is to ban the lot!

 

[Roger Ramjets]

No matter what is presented your mind is already made up, there's nothing new that will change it.

Which, as has been pointed out, is the polar opposite of skepticism.

Did I miss the post with 'new' information showing that cannabis isn't a waste of one's mental faculties?

Side Effects of Cannabinoids

Although there are studies that show potential benefits from Cannabinoids, there are many side effects from taking the drug. This shows that an addiction to this natural drug can be hazardous.

Some side effects include:

Rapid heart beat
Dizziness
Depression
Hallucination
Low blood pressure
Paranoia
Panic attacks
Food cravings

It's not 'the polar opposite of skepticism' to consider those valid reasons to avoid cannabis, and no reason to change your mind while there's nothing new to redeem it. And when you've had experiences like acbytesla has with people being turned into morons or worse, it's going to (rightfully) take a lot to change your mind.

 

[acbytesla]

Did I miss the post with 'new' information showing that cannabis isn't a waste of one's mental faculties?

Side Effects of Cannabinoids

It's not 'the polar opposite of skepticism' to consider those valid reasons to avoid cannabis, and no reason to change your mind while there's nothing new to redeem it. And when you've had experiences like acbytesla has with people being turned into morons or worse, it's going to (rightfully) take a lot to change your mind.

Thank you Roger.

 

[This is The End]

Sure, pot makes some folks completely useless, still better than booze which makes some folks completely useless except for occasional bouts of violence.

That sentence should have been the end of the entire thread.

If alcohol is legal then marijuana damn sure better be as well. Both are mentally and physically horrible for you if abused, but alcohol is much worse.

Both should have a heavily regulated and seriously enforced minimum age for use and purchase.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Not really. This is sarcasm right?

Not at all just treating things equally. Failing a pot test does not mean you are high, it means you were high, and ever being high is a disqualification then ever being drunk should be as well. So drinking should be equally disqualifying for employment as smoking pot no matter the timing.

 

[plague311]

Did I miss the post with 'new' information showing that cannabis isn't a waste of one's mental faculties?

The claim was it's a waste of one's mental faculties. Something that hasn't been proven, or even attempted to be supported, by anything other than anecdotal experiences of a few people on this forum. Provide me with something that shows cannabis is a waste of one's mental faculties. It's not on me to prove a negative, you guys are the ones making the positive claim.

Side Effects of Cannabinoids

If you can't trust a source named "rehabspot" for non-bias information...anyway. There are side effects to everything. Look at that list of "possible" side effects and compare those to the end of any ******* medical commercial, where the last "side effect" is generally death or cancer. With weed it sounds like you might end up with a crazy case of a ham sandwich.

It's not 'the polar opposite of skepticism' to consider those valid reasons to avoid cannabis, and no reason to change your mind while there's nothing new to redeem it. And when you've had experiences like acbytesla has with people being turned into morons or worse, it's going to (rightfully) take a lot to change your mind.

I don't want either of you guys to try weed. That would be extremely pointless because naysayers are going to naysay. I just don't want nonsensical misinformation spreading out of ignorance. Which is exactly the case here. It's not that you guys are afraid of the devil's lettuce, it's that acbytesla won't even bother to look into it or try to educate ones self. Then you say something as completely ignorant as "nothing has changed", which it certainly has over the last 10 years alone.

So again, stay away from it but don't make **** up.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

I blame Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Great movie though.

 

[acbytesla]

The claim was it's a waste of one's mental faculties. Something that hasn't been proven, or even attempted to be supported, by anything other than anecdotal experiences of a few people on this forum. Provide me with something that shows cannabis is a waste of one's mental faculties. It's not on me to prove a negative, you guys are the ones making the positive claim.



If you can't trust a source named "rehabspot" for non-bias information...anyway. There are side effects to everything. Look at that list of "possible" side effects and compare those to the end of any ******* medical commercial, where the last "side effect" is generally death or cancer. With weed it sounds like you might end up with a crazy case of a ham sandwich.



I don't want either of you guys to try weed. That would be extremely pointless because naysayers are going to naysay. I just don't want nonsensical misinformation spreading out of ignorance. Which is exactly the case here. It's not that you guys are afraid of the devil's lettuce, it's that acbytesla won't even bother to look into it or try to educate ones self. Then you say something as completely ignorant as "nothing has changed", which it certainly has over the last 10 years alone.

So again, stay away from it but don't make **** up.

I've had enough of your insulting bs.. I may not be taking cannabis related products but I have definitely been exposed to people that do. I've also read my share of articles regarding the effects of cannabis use. In fact, if you google short and long term effects of cannabis use, you can find article after article including article including in reputable medical journals and in the NIH that definitely support my impressions.


Here is a wikipedia citation.

Acute cannabis intoxication has been shown to negatively affect attention, psychomotor task ability, and short-term memory.[9][10] Studies of chronic cannabis use have not consistently demonstrated a long-lasting or refractory effect on the attention span, memory function, or cognitive abilities of moderate-dose long-term users. Once cannabis use was discontinued, these effects disappeared in users abstinent for a period of several months.[11]

Chronic use of cannabis during adolescence, a time when the brain is still developing, is correlated in the long term with lower IQ and cognitive deficits. It is not clear, though, if cannabis use causes the problems or if the causality is in the reverse. Recent studies have shown that IQ deficits existed in subjects before chronic cannabis use, suggesting that lower IQ may instead be a risk factor for cannabis addiction.[12]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis

There are so many articles citing similar effects they are too numerous to even begin.

https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/short-and-long-term-effects.html
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/marijuana-rehab/long-term-effects
https://portage.ca/en/blog/long-and-short-term-effects-of-cannabis/
https://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/stopt...ces/marijuana/short-and-long-term-effects.cfm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
https://www.healthyplace.com/addict...-term-and-long-term-effects-of-weed-marijuana
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1407/7-short-term-effects-marijuana-the-brain
https://www.fvkasa.org/english/health/marijuana-health-effects/
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects
https://www.livestrong.com/article/24795-long-term-short-term-effects/

A tiny sample.

Now I grant you there are also articles that downplay the negative effects of cannabis use. But I have yet to read one that has said it doesn't have an effect on cognition and memory.

So do me a favor. Put down the bong and stop accusing me of having an unfairly reached position. I don't have to jump off a building to know that it might cause physical damage to my body and I don't have to get stoned to know that it could make me dumber.

 

[plague311]

I've had enough of your insulting bs..

Ironic considering you pretty much call me a stupid pothead to end this post.

I may not be taking cannabis related products but I have definitely been exposed to people that do. I've also read my share of articles regarding the effects of cannabis use. In fact, if you google short and long term effects of cannabis use, you can find article after article including article including in reputable medical journals and in the NIH that definitely support my impressions.

Here is a wikipedia citation.

There are so many articles citing similar effects they are too numerous to even begin.

https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/short-and-long-term-effects.html
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/marijuana-rehab/long-term-effects
https://portage.ca/en/blog/long-and-short-term-effects-of-cannabis/
https://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/stopt...ces/marijuana/short-and-long-term-effects.cfm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
https://www.healthyplace.com/addict...-term-and-long-term-effects-of-weed-marijuana
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1407/7-short-term-effects-marijuana-the-brain
https://www.fvkasa.org/english/health/marijuana-health-effects/
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects
https://www.livestrong.com/article/24795-long-term-short-term-effects/

A tiny sample.

Now I grant you there are also articles that downplay the negative effects of cannabis use. But I have yet to read one that has said it doesn't have an effect on cognition and memory.

Ah, so there's where the issue comes in. You seem to be thinking I've said there are absolutely no side effects to marijuana. A claim I haven't made. I am arguing that it's a waste of my mental faculties. Which it's not considering I have a degree, great job, my own house, a full family, and am mentally sound.

Any time you light something on fire and inhale it there will be negative side effects. Hell, what you described is about the same as sugar:

Even a single instance of elevated glucose in the bloodstream can be harmful to the brain, resulting in slowed cognitive function and deficits in memory and attention

So I guess eating sugar is "a waste of one's mental faculties", right? I mean, after all, a sugar high is a thing.

So do me a favor. Put down the bong and stop accusing me of having an unfairly reached position.

No...to both.

I don't have to jump off a building to know that it might cause physical damage to my body and I don't have to get stoned to know that it could make me dumber.

It's possible, not likely, but it's possible. I'd say the memory could be an issue, but dumber? Nah.

 

[acbytesla]

Ironic considering you pretty much call me a stupid pothead to end this post.

No I didn't. To begin with, I believe you already admitted that you smoke the demon weed. I also said "could" which also means it might not.

Ah, so there's where the issue comes in. You seem to be thinking I've said there are absolutely no side effects to marijuana. A claim I haven't made. I am arguing that it's a waste of my mental faculties. Which it's not considering I have a degree, great job, my own house, a full family, and am mentally sound.

I never said you didn't. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't be sharper and quicker without it

Any time you light something on fire and inhale it there will be negative side effects.

So why would you do that?

Hell, what you described is about the same as sugar.

So? Does eating a candy bar justify taking drugs?

So I guess eating sugar is "a waste of one's mental faculties", right? I mean, after all, a sugar high is a thing.

Are you suggesting that consuming a Hershey bar makes effects cognition or memory? .

It's possible, not likely, but it's possible. I'd say the memory could be an issue, but dumber? Nah.

There are in fact studies that suggest that Cannabis use lowers IQ scores. But I am skeptical of their methodology and how they drew their conclusions.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I mean, after all, a sugar high is a thing.

It's not, actually.

 

[plague311]

No I didn't. To begin with, I believe you already admitted that you smoke the demon weed. I also said "could" which also means it might not.

Yes, I do smoke, daily. You told me to "put down the bong" as if I'm sitting at my desk in my office getting ripped while writing this.

I never said you didn't. But that doesn't mean you wouldn't be sharper and quicker without it

Absolutely no evidence I would be sharper and quicker without it too. Not to mention the things I use it to treat would then become a problem again.

So why would you do that?

A bunch of reasons.

So? Does eating a candy bar justify taking drugs?

I don't know, I don't need to justify the things I do to people. I'm saying that while you're on your soapbox here with regards to how terrible marijuana is for people, there are a myriad of every day items that have the same effects. Of those items I would bet you're outspoken about next to none of them. I used a prime example, sugar.

Are you suggesting that consuming a Hershey bar makes effects cognition or memory? .

The source I used is making the claim. Are they wrong? Do you have something to the contrary? The entire point I was trying to make is there are several things we eat\drink over the course of our lives that have negative effects, but their usage is a net positive for the user.

There are in fact studies that suggest that Cannabis use lowers IQ scores. But I am skeptical of their methodology and find it hard to believe in how they drew their conclusions.

I would beg to differ:

Now, in the first study of its kind, scientists have analyzed long-term marijuana use in teens, comparing IQ changes in twin siblings who either used or abstained from marijuana for 10 years. After taking environmental factors into account, the scientists found no measurable link between marijuana use and lower IQ.

Now, this is all in good fun, and, again, I don't really care if anyone's mind gets changed. That's not really my goal.

The legalization of marijuana is an inevitability. It's going to happen and is happening. So I'm not worried about it by any means.

What I dislike is people saying "look at all of these terrible things weed does" without listing the massive amount of good it does. That's how debates work I guess.

It's not, actually.

I was just using it to make a point. I get it's not a medical term or anything like that, but it's common verbage. I was just trying to make a point using something everyone was familiar with.

I apologize and please accept my humblest apologies for using a poor example.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's not, actually.

My cousin said that. So one Thanksgiving I gave her three kids a bunch of pralines and divinity fudge while the adults were prepping the meal. Having observed the results I'm willing to side with folklore on this matter.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

https://sciencebeta.com/cannabis-cuts-migraine-pain/

 

[Minoosh]

Absolutely not. The regular market will be half priced compared to the black market. I didn't mean to give that impression.



I was just saying that seizure for legal weed will still happen in the way it happens for others things that are legal, but used illegally. Guns are seized, despite them being legal. Cars are seized from drunken drivers, despite cars being legal, etc. So seizures wouldn't go away entirely, just at a much lower rate. However, the feds would still make heaps of money through taxation.

I'm not sure civil forfeiture laws are as all-encompassing as you believe. My understanding is assets can be seized if they're suspected of being used in support of a criminal enterprise. Drunk driver's cars can be impounded, but that's not the same thing.

 

[plague311]

I'm not sure civil forfeiture laws are as all-encompassing as you believe. My understanding is assets can be seized if they're suspected of being used in support of a criminal enterprise. Drunk driver's cars can be impounded, but that's not the same thing.

I agree. I apologize as I appear to be having issues stating myself clearly. I didn't mean to imply it would be as easy as it is now, but I'm not a huge advocate of taking people's **** based on cops thinking it could have been used to further an enterprise anyway. I just meant that seizures would still take place, though not in anyway like they do now and that the tax income from weed would offset the difference. I hope that helps clear things up.

 

[Minoosh]

I agree. I apologize as I appear to be having issues stating myself clearly. I didn't mean to imply it would be as easy as it is now, but I'm not a huge advocate of taking people's **** based on cops thinking it could have been used to further an enterprise anyway. I just meant that seizures would still take place, though not in anyway like they do now and that the tax income from weed would offset the difference. I hope that helps clear things up.

As far as cognitive effects: I used to be a daily user and it didn't seem to hurt and may have helped in some endeavors, although that might have been an artifact of a relaxing ritual rather than a pharmacologic effect. But now that I use it rarely, and only with a couple of old friends, it absolutely affects my my thinking. I'll forget in mid-sentence what we are talking about. My friends, who use regularly, can always remind me, so it's not happening to them. I also never understood it being called a hallucinogen until I stopped. Though mild, it does seem to have that effect on me now. I don't use it if I have any pressing need to "maintain" during the next couple of hours.

Andrew Weil studied marijuana effects among marijuana-naive people on the Harvard campus. His conclusion, which I don't entirely buy, was that weed of the time was very close to being what he called an "active placebo." There were pharmacological effects but they were extremely mild. His conclusion was that people sort of *learn* how to get stoned from their friends, and thereafter experience the effects they've grown to expect. Among the truly marijuana-naive, in a neutral setting, they experienced next to nothing.

I certainly don't see a downside to legalization. I've thought about getting a card, but haven't. When it becomes straight-on legal in my state, maybe I'll partake more regularly.