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House Impeachment Inquiry

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dasmiller said:
Actually, I think Giuliani was running something of a rogue operation that got Yovanovitch fired, but that's a separate issue from Trump's "perfect" quid pro quo.
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There was NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING "rogue" about what Rudy was doing.
 
dasmiller said:
I believe that the whole arms-money-for-investigation thing was pure Trump. The Yovanovitch thing may have been an almost-unrelated thing that Giuliani was pushing at the behest of some Ukrainians who, AFAIK, didn't care about Biden.
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No, it's clear that removing Yovanovitch was a necessary element of the plan.
 
Trump earlier today:

"I’m not concerned about anything," Trump said. "The testimony has all been fine. I mean for the most part, I’ve never even heard of these people. There are some very fine people. You have some Never Trumpers. It seems that nobody has any first-hand knowledge."
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What reality does this Clown live in? Perhaps this belongs in the "Donald Trump has a serious mental illness" thread.
 
Meanwhile there appears that Bolton is teasing people with more details:

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/politics/john-bolton-lawyer-ukraine-information/index.html
Former national security adviser John Bolton has "personal knowledge" of relevant meetings and conversations "that have not yet been discussed in testimonies thus far" as part of the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump, but he is still refusing to testify until a federal judge rules in an ongoing legal fight between House committees and the White House, according to his lawyer.

To be honest I'm not really sure what his angle is. He is waiting for a legal ruling regarding his immunity from prosecution, but I doubt a judge really cares what he might talk about when debriefed.
 
Segnosaur said:
To be honest I'm not really sure what his angle is. He is waiting for a legal ruling regarding his immunity from prosecution, but I doubt a judge really cares what he might talk about when debriefed.
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The warmongering weasel may be showing us why so many people are following orders to ignore congressional subpoenas: They're afraid that if they testify, they won't get their promised pardons.
 
It is weird that people are hiding behind already contests DOJ opinions instead of following the examples of the Nixon and Clinton Impeachments -
If Bolton knows of impeachable offenses committed by Trump, he needs to tell them, and he can be sure their won't be legal consequences for him.
But no judicial ruling will protect him from the Trumpsters.
 
dudalb said:
Rumors now abounding that GOPers in the House are considering a plan to make Giuliani the scapegoat for the Ukraine scandal, trying to portray it as a rogue operation Trump had no control over.....
Total BS of course, but it indicates the evidence of wrongdoing is so strong that they can't just hand wave it away or claim nothing happened.
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A few weeks ago Trump did claim not to know whether Giuliani was his lawyer and said he hadn't spoken to him in a while.
 
Segnosaur said:
Meanwhile there appears that Bolton is teasing people with more details:

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/politics/john-bolton-lawyer-ukraine-information/index.html
Former national security adviser John Bolton has "personal knowledge" of relevant meetings and conversations "that have not yet been discussed in testimonies thus far" as part of the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump, but he is still refusing to testify until a federal judge rules in an ongoing legal fight between House committees and the White House, according to his lawyer.

To be honest I'm not really sure what his angle is. He is waiting for a legal ruling regarding his immunity from prosecution, but I doubt a judge really cares what he might talk about when debriefed.
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Seems to me that Bolton is being consistent here. He believes in a very strong executive branch so he doesn't dismiss the notion that he can be ordered not to testify. But it's also plausible that the order is not a legal order and he can't ignore a subpoena from Congress, so he's asking advice from a court.

I'm not particularly fond of Bolton but I do think he's a man of some principles. (No wonder he was a poor fit in the Trump administration.)

Mulvaney is doing the same thing today. I'm not sure, but that may be a political strategy. It adds weight to the case that the House Democrats would just as soon drop in favor of a speedy process. If they feel compelled to pursue the court case to enforce their subpoenas, the whole process is slowed down and loses some momentum.
 
Bolton's primary principle is that war is the answer to every problem. He'd have fixed the Ukraine situation by bombing Kiev.

Meanwhile Trump is complaining that hearings should not be held in public. Exactly the opposite of a couple of weeks ago.
 
Babbylonian said:
The warmongering weasel may be showing us why so many people are following orders to ignore congressional subpoenas: They're afraid that if they testify, they won't get their promised pardons.
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Why would Bolton need a pardon? He hasn't been accused of anything illegal in the press.

I don't think you're right about him.
 
Trebuchet said:
Bolton's primary principle is that war is the answer to every problem. He'd have fixed the Ukraine situation by bombing Kiev.
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I'm not saying that I approve of all of Bolton's principles.

But he was on the right side of the meetings Hill and Vindman testified about. He expressed a prudent interest not to be part of anything so dubious as the quid pro quo under discussion. He's showing a similar prudence in deferring to a court as to whether the administration's claim of immunity is valid or not.

I'm not saying that his position is noble. If he thinks the administration has crossed a serious line, it would be a noble act to testify regardless of the administration's order not to, as several people have. Bolton is instead covering his ass.
 
Giuliani sounds worried. From about 20 minutes ago:

"Rudy Giuliani
@RudyGiuliani
Schiff has completely trashed the Constitution.

No right of counsel. No right of cross-examination. No right to call witnesses.

But you bet they will conduct at least 20 different investigations of me to try to find if I did something wrong in grammar school."

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1193186455646064641
 
What's the under/over on this finally breaking Trump and him going full on Jack Nicholson during the hearing?
 
phiwum said:
Why would Bolton need a pardon? He hasn't been accused of anything illegal in the press.

I don't think you're right about him.
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He, along with the rest of the executive branch scum, pretty obviously doesn't believe in the Constitution of the United States of America. "Checks and balances?" If the United States Congress can't compel testimony from members of the executive branch, then members of the executive branch are effectively above the law.

Seriously, this isn't even high school civics stuff. It's literally taught in grade school.
 
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