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The Trump Presidency: Part 17

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I glanced at the headline of the third cite, but couldn't read it. It was about Trump not notifying the Dems. So was the second one.

I was asking the following: Do any news stories allege that not notifying the Gang of Eight was illegal because this was a "covert action" according to the relevant law?

ETA: In fact, my question was quite explicit. How come you gave me dull stories that just said he didn't notify the Gang of Eight? You surely noticed I was asking for the claim that such failure was illegal. (The Guardian says the Gang is supposed to be notified of covert actions, but it's not clear to me that this was a covert action.)
 
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I am an American, by the way.

But thanks for the citation. I did not know that was a legal requirement. It does appear that he was required to at least notify the Gang of Eight[1] and did not do so.

[1] Assuming that this counts as a covert action, which I don't know. I don't know the relevant definition for this term.

ETA: The definition of covert action is found here. I reproduce it here:

(e) “Covert action” definedAs used in this subchapter, the term “covert action” means an activity or activities of the United States Government to influence political, economic, or military conditions abroad, where it is intended that the role of the United States Government will not be apparent or acknowledged publicly, but does not include—
(1) activities the primary purpose of which is to acquire intelligence, traditional counterintelligence activities, traditional activities to improve or maintain the operational security of United States Government programs, or administrative activities;
(2) traditional diplomatic or military activities or routine support to such activities;
(3) traditional law enforcement activities conducted by United States Government law enforcement agencies or routine support to such activities; or
(4) activities to provide routine support to the overt activities (other than activities described in paragraph (1), (2), or (3)) of other United States Government agencies abroad.

Seems to me that this wasn't a covert action, since the role of the US was immediately acknowledged publicly.

Surely, if this was a violation of the law, it would be discussed in the press, no? Anyone actually claiming that this was a covert action and hence required notifying the Gang of Eight?
The function of the US government is civics 101. That means you and the press should be at least minimally aware how the Congress and the POTUS have joint responsibilities for military actions. By minimally I mean you should have at least an idea maybe you should look it up when these things come up.
 
The function of the US government is civics 101. That means you and the press should be at least minimally aware how the Congress and the POTUS have joint responsibilities for military actions. By minimally I mean you should have at least an idea maybe you should look it up when these things come up.

Neither Pelosi nor Schumer have had civics 101 either, since they haven't alleged an illegal action.

The authorization for the war on terror gave the executive branch considerable liberty in military actions aimed at halting international terrorism. I have not looked at the details (have you?) but the current silence suggests that Trump was within his legal rights to do this without notifying the Gang of Eight, much less Congress as a whole.

Or, perhaps he would've gotten away with it if not for the meddling kids on ISF and that darned dog of theirs.

I know which of the two options I regard as more plausible.
 
Who the **** are you calling a Trump fan?

You know you could have said, "I wasn't bamboozled and I'm not a fan." And I could have said "I was talking about the principle, not about any individuals, that Trump gets his followers to believe stuff because they don't understand how they're being bamboozled."
 
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Neither Pelosi nor Schumer have had civics 101 either, since they haven't alleged an illegal action.
And you don't think they have so many illegal actions to choose from that it was politically expedient not to make a fuss about this one?

I'm pretty sure both Pelosi and Schumer have more than enough years of experience in Congress that they are more than familiar with the Constitution.
 
Neither Pelosi nor Schumer have had civics 101 either, since they haven't alleged an illegal action.

The authorization for the war on terror gave the executive branch considerable liberty in military actions aimed at halting international terrorism. I have not looked at the details (have you?) but the current silence suggests that Trump was within his legal rights to do this without notifying the Gang of Eight, much less Congress as a whole.

Or, perhaps he would've gotten away with it if not for the meddling kids on ISF and that darned dog of theirs.

I know which of the two options I regard as more plausible.

He should have notified the gang of 8. He shouldn't have notified Congress as a whole. He has that duty.
 
But getting upset that Trump may have lied about the specifics of his death comes across as sympathy for Baghdadi, and I'm telling you, that's not a good look.

Yeah, and the sky may be blue. C'mon, Zig, call a spade a spade. Yeah, I know that's not your central point but you should avoid waffle language when it comes to Dump's utter and complete failings.
 
Another liberal here who wants us to kill fewer rather than more ISIS fighters. SMH...

One of the generals in charge of Iraq operations when it was a hot war zone stated in an official policy document that it was not productive (not his word but it's close enough) because when you kill a "freedom fighter" you create 20 more (his number, not mine) to take his place. This in a culture where grudges span generations.

Yeah, it's necessary to kill some but in the long run it's just not possible to eradicate terrorism by killing the terrorists.

I've heard this countless times, but there's never any support for this assertion.
You want me to dig up the actual document? Or do you, like Dump, know more than the generals?
 
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https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1188851382805323777

b-boy bouiebaisse
@jbouie
·
12h
i too am unable to distinguish between a political figure and his supporters urging the state to criminalize his opponents and a crowd of citizens satirically turning the leader’s language against him
Quote Tweet

Joe Scarborough
@JoeNBC
· 14h
So let’s see if I’ve got this straight: When crowds chant “Lock her up” toward Hillary, it is illiberal and anti-American.
(I agree). But when crowds chant the same toward Trump,
it is suddenly a fulsome exercise of sacred First Amendment rights. What hypocritical clowns
 
"Smart" and "Trump" are never used in the same sentence. That is unless the sentence is uttered by Trump himself.

But, but... you just used them in the same sentence! And I LIKE being allowed to say "Trump is not smart." :D

Not sure how I feel about a president being booed, but I wonder if it started this way for Mussolini.

He's earned it so very many times over that I'm completely and totally fine with it.

It's great that the real Americans in the crowd booed and chanted lock him up. It makes him look weak and I'm sure he was humiliated. It's always good for the country to hurt Trump.

On the other hand, I still reject the opinion that something hurting Trump is automatically good for the country.

Staying on subject, though... Trump was loudly booed, but Fox and Friends edited the tape so their viewers wouldn't hear

And quite downplayed the whole thing, of course.

Looks like there are multiple pundits that are attacking the left for being so very incivil, either way. Morning Joe and Chris Cilizza, for example. I find myself quite agreeing with this slightly censored part of this little rant.

You feed the orange beast for years with ******** like this then you dare ******* blame liberals for the goal posts of national behavior toward the office of the presidency. You expect ******* decency from us when we have been called nothing but enemies of the people, traitors, liars, and just about every other political insult one can think of from that ******* in the oval office for years. His rhetoric has killed people, and yet we’re the one’s disrespecting him.

Or, if you just want a really short and sweet version... **** the incredible double standards that the right-wing employs to determine what's civil or not and **** the complicity of waaaay too much of what the right-wing calls the "liberal" media in spreading that BS.

Moving on, though.

Looks like Devin Nunes' aide is working to out the Arms for Dirt whistleblower via congressional hearing, now. Because ethics and morality are things that Nunes and company revile.

Also, well... GOP Operative Says They Have Over 700 Revenge Porn Pics Of Katie Hill

To be clear, Revenge Porn is illegal in 46 states and DC. I quite hope that anyone who spread them is seriously held accountable.
 
Are you claiming that I said or inferred that "Trump did it for domestic consumption"? If so, try again as I did no such thing.

This was all about Trump being Trump: lying his ass off about something that there is no evidence of ever happening. You provide evidence otherwise and I'll admit I'm wrong. Until then...

I meant 'implied'.
 
I glanced at the headline of the third cite, but couldn't read it. It was about Trump not notifying the Dems. So was the second one.

I was asking the following: Do any news stories allege that not notifying the Gang of Eight was illegal because this was a "covert action" according to the relevant law?

ETA: In fact, my question was quite explicit. How come you gave me dull stories that just said he didn't notify the Gang of Eight? You surely noticed I was asking for the claim that such failure was illegal. (The Guardian says the Gang is supposed to be notified of covert actions, but it's not clear to me that this was a covert action.)
Covert? I should laugh.

Trump literally announced it globally by tweet on his usual presidential tweeterphone channel. "Something big has happened!" Hundreds of millions of people could have seen that, including Russia and ISIS. And Russia and Turkey and Iraq were all in on it because it was arranged to go through various air spaces without confrontation. So you can't get much more covert than that. :rolleyes:

And yet the Gang of Eight heard it at the same time as you did. That is, a non-covert operation that bypassed set protocols because of irrational personal bias.

Did Trump tell his team to act this way? Probably not directly. Trump never makes direct orders. He's more of a mafia don..."Why can't this be done like I want it? Make him an offer...etc." Trump wanted al-Baghdadi dead, sure. But he didn't design or run the op, or even know the date or details. That was all to be done by henchmen.

Of course, Trump's henchmen are a bunch of lawless clueless suck-ups looking for any brownie-points from Boss Donny, and this was a sure-fire way to squelch the impeachment goings on which would please him as well. Or so they thought.

There are no adults left in that room. Nobody who would tell them the correct protocols for this. So chances are they didn't even bother to check the paperwork. They just cheerfully launched into what was essentially a PR exercise that involved Delta Force ('Murica heroes!) and a bunch of brown Muslim countries (faceless expendables), and asking his pal Russia to look the other way (buddy Putin!). What could possibly go wrong?

Well, the op went fine, which is all to the good. But the PR exercise has been a failure. But never mind. The MAGA-nuts will lap it up nonetheless.

And then he got boo'ed at the baseball. So we have all moved on.
 
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