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The Trump Presidency: Part 17

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pgwenthold said:
Do we know he gave the go-ahead for this specific operation? Or just a general "go find the guy" order?

Because if so, when did he do it? It really seems weird that he would say, "Yeah, get him, I'm going to golf for a while. I'll be back when it gets interesting."
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Weird, for Trump?!?! Heck, even if he'd say "Yeah, get him, I'm going to rub mayonnaise and kaopectate all over my body for a while. I'll be back when it gets interesting." It'd still be doubtful if it seems weird for Trump.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Not sure how I feel about a president being booed, but I wonder if it started this way for Mussolini.
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It's great that the real Americans in the crowd booed and chanted lock him up. It makes him look weak and I'm sure he was humiliated. It's always good for the country to hurt Trump.
 
I like that NYC is considering renaming a block of Fifth Avenue in NYC Barack Obama Blvd.

Can you guess what well known building is on that block?

Trump Tower
 
Trump Tweets

Can you believe that Shifty Adam Schiff, the biggest leaker in D.C., and a corrupt politician, is upset that we didn’t inform him before we raided and killed the #1 terrorist in the WORLD!? Wouldn’t be surprised if the Do Nothing Democrats Impeach me over that! DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
 
phiwum said:
What specific laws do you have in mind? Far as I know, the president is not legally required to notify the gang of eight, for instance. Which laws do you think have been violated?
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This isn't hard, even for a non-USAian.

Under normal conditions, the President of the United States is required by Title 50 U.S.C. § 3091(a)(1) to "ensure that the congressional intelligence committees are kept fully and currently informed of the intelligence activities of the United States, including any significant anticipated intelligence activity as required by [the] title." However, under "extraordinary circumstances", when the President thinks "it is essential to limit access" to information about a covert action, 50 U.S.C. § 3093(c)(2) allows the President to limit reporting to the Gang of Eight.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Eight_(intelligence)
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Can you believe that Shifty Adam Schiff, the biggest leaker in D.C., and a corrupt politician, is upset that we didn’t inform him before we raided and killed the #1 terrorist in the WORLD!? Wouldn’t be surprised if the Do Nothing Democrats Impeach me over that! DRAIN THE SWAMP!!
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Doubt it, Donny. You've already given them more than enough real low-lights and evidence on the world stage to lead to impeachment proceedings. Just go sit down and stop trying to pick a fight. You just look more stupid than you already do.
 
Norman Alexander said:
This isn't hard, even for a non-USAian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Eight_(intelligence)
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I am an American, by the way.

But thanks for the citation. I did not know that was a legal requirement. It does appear that he was required to at least notify the Gang of Eight[1] and did not do so.

[1] Assuming that this counts as a covert action, which I don't know. I don't know the relevant definition for this term.

ETA: The definition of covert action is found here. I reproduce it here:

(e) “Covert action” definedAs used in this subchapter, the term “covert action” means an activity or activities of the United States Government to influence political, economic, or military conditions abroad, where it is intended that the role of the United States Government will not be apparent or acknowledged publicly, but does not include—
(1) activities the primary purpose of which is to acquire intelligence, traditional counterintelligence activities, traditional activities to improve or maintain the operational security of United States Government programs, or administrative activities;
(2) traditional diplomatic or military activities or routine support to such activities;
(3) traditional law enforcement activities conducted by United States Government law enforcement agencies or routine support to such activities; or
(4) activities to provide routine support to the overt activities (other than activities described in paragraph (1), (2), or (3)) of other United States Government agencies abroad.

Seems to me that this wasn't a covert action, since the role of the US was immediately acknowledged publicly.

Surely, if this was a violation of the law, it would be discussed in the press, no? Anyone actually claiming that this was a covert action and hence required notifying the Gang of Eight?
 
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phiwum said:
I am an American, by the way.

Not obviously illegal, since Trump could always claim "extraordinary circumstances" and I doubt any court would gainsay him. (Courts seem to give broad latitude to the executive branch in matters of national security, as we've seen in this administration.)

But thanks for the citation. I did not know that was a legal requirement.
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But under the "extraordinary circumstances" he is only required to notify the "Gang of 8" and not the full committee. But that means he is still required to notify those leaders.
 
pgwenthold said:
But under the "extraordinary circumstances" he is only required to notify the "Gang of 8" and not the full committee. But that means he is still required to notify those leaders.
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Quite right, I misread the passage at first and have since edited my post. Apologies for the initial half-cocked response.
 
All he would have to do is say this wasn't an intelligence activity, it was a military activity. I'm no fan of Trump, but the knee jerk reactions are getting a bit out of hand.
 
Lurch said:
Jumpin' Jehosephat. You just don't get it. The freakin' leader of the supposed greatest nation on Earth lying in this way makes both him and the US look small-minded and juvenile. There's no *dignity* in it, even if the just-dispatched bastard deserves it. Let other lesser lights do the trash talking. The President should project a certain gravitas.
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What surprises me is that this surprises you.

Seriously, the typical Trump sycophants on this forum genuinely cannot understand that because Trump lied about his actions, and you are calling him on it the lie, that does not necessarily mean you are opposed to the action, or support whoever or whatever the action was taken against. This type of thinking is far too complicated for them to comprehend, they are only capable of "if you're not for Trump then you're against him", or "if you criticise Trump for anything you must be a Libtard" thinking.
 
phiwum said:
I am an American, by the way.

But thanks for the citation. I did not know that was a legal requirement. It does appear that he was required to at least notify the Gang of Eight[1] and did not do so.

[1] Assuming that this counts as a covert action, which I don't know. I don't know the relevant definition for this term.

ETA: The definition of covert action is found here. I reproduce it here:

(e) “Covert action” definedAs used in this subchapter, the term “covert action” means an activity or activities of the United States Government to influence political, economic, or military conditions abroad, where it is intended that the role of the United States Government will not be apparent or acknowledged publicly, but does not include—
(1) activities the primary purpose of which is to acquire intelligence, traditional counterintelligence activities, traditional activities to improve or maintain the operational security of United States Government programs, or administrative activities;
(2) traditional diplomatic or military activities or routine support to such activities;
(3) traditional law enforcement activities conducted by United States Government law enforcement agencies or routine support to such activities; or
(4) activities to provide routine support to the overt activities (other than activities described in paragraph (1), (2), or (3)) of other United States Government agencies abroad.

Seems to me that this wasn't a covert action, since the role of the US was immediately acknowledged publicly.

Surely, if this was a violation of the law, it would be discussed in the press, no? Anyone actually claiming that this was a covert action and hence required notifying the Gang of Eight?
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It was indeed discussed in the media.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/27/pelosi-trump-democrats-baghdadi-raid

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/27/tru...p-congressional-leaders-on-baghdadi-raid.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...emocrats-dark-about-al-baghdadi-raid-n1072556
 
phiwum said:
The Washington Post gives an account of the raid that suggests the helicopters landed at the site around 5:00pm. I don't know their sources. Are you positive that they were supposed to have landed earlier?
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I was wrong
 
Donnie explains his Middle East strategy. He loves him some oil. What a tool.

The oil is, you know, so valuable. For many reasons. It fueled ISIS, number one. Number two, it helps the Kurds, because it’s basically been taken away from the Kurds. They were able to live with that oil. And number three,it can help us, because we should be able to take some also. And what I intend to do, perhaps, is make a deal with an ExxonMobil or one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly. Right now it’s not big. It’s big oil underground but it’s not big oil up top. Much of the machinery has been shot and dead. It’s been through wars. But—and—and spread out the wealth. But no, we’re protecting the oil, we’re securing the oil. Now that doesn’t mean we don’t make a deal at some point.

But I don’t want to be—they’re—they’re fighting for 1,000 years, they’re fighting for centuries. I want to bring our soldiers back home, but I do want to secure the oil. If you read about the history of Donald Trump, I was a civilian. I had absolutely nothing to do with going into Iraq and I was totally against it. But I always used to say if they’re going to go in—nobody cared that much but it got written about—if they’re going to go in—I’m sure you’ve heard the statement because I made it more than any human being alive. If they’re going into Iraq, keep the oil. They never did. They never did. Link
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Keep the oil. Sad part is, that kind of talk probably thrills his base. Screw the Arabs. We take their oil, that's all. It was theirs only guess what? Now it's ours!
 
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