Resolved: Trump Era Republicans Are Uniquely Bad in American Political History

[Hellbound]

You know, this entire line of argument is ridiculous.

I don't have to have the first flat tire ever for it to ruin my trip.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You know, this entire line of argument is ridiculous.

Because it's not an argument and everyone knows it. Nobody it's used against thinks it's an argument and nobody who uses it really believes it is.

It's a "scorch the argumentative Earth instead of losing the argument" tactic.

It's just the political discussion version of "Well prove you aren't a brain in a jar" the Woo Slingers pull.

It's just another sad variation of "I'd rather nobody be right about anything then be wrong about this one thing."

 

[theprestige]

You know, this entire line of argument is ridiculous.

I don't have to have the first flat tire ever for it to ruin my trip.

While analogies are problematic, it should be said that flat tires generally don't ruin trips. Unless you have a really bad attitude and every little setback or surprise causes a temper tantrum and a constant refrain of "this trip is ruined!"

 

[Hellbound]

While analogies are problematic, it should be said that flat tires generally don't ruin trips. Unless you have a really bad attitude and every little setback or surprise causes a temper tantrum and a constant refrain of "this trip is ruined!"

Couldn't resist, could you? Anything to distract from any substantive point? Let's nitpick the analogy instead of discuss the point that literally everyone else can understand?

You're right, none of the numerous problems are unique, so let's just sit in our hand baskets and smile. No complaints, no point in making things better because this isn't unique.

Or if that's not it, what is the point of this constant refrain of (to paraphrase) just shut up and take it you insist on? It's a pointless argument whether true or false, yet seems to be pretty much the only thing brought to the table anymore.

 

[Belz...]

Couldn't resist, could you? Anything to distract from any substantive point? Let's nitpick the analogy instead of discuss the point that literally everyone else can understand?

A self-fulfilling prophecy: theprestige really doesn't like analogies so he nitpicks them to death so he can later say that analogies never work.

 

[varwoche]

Parties are complex entities with large membership. No defined parameters, cherry-pick this, cherry-pick that -- it's a fool's errand. On the other hand, there have only been 44 POTUSes. It's feasible to look back and reasonably determine certain things, especially if we focus on the electronic media age. What with the vagueness of the challenge and Cabbage's vacation, I hope y'all don't mind if I focus on Trump.

Certain of my claims are too fuzzy to elevate to a challenge, my confidence notwithstanding. But these claims seem to me like low-hanging fruit. (In terms of researchability.)

(1) There has never been a POTUS who was a rank conspiracy theorist, churning them out on the daily.

(2) There has never been a POTUS who was such a brazen racist/bigot (applying the norms of the times)

(3) There has never been a POTUS who constantly lies about matters big and small, to such an extent that they have declared a war on reality.

(4) There has never been a POTUS who was such a brazen narcissist, to such an extreme that may as well be a surreal comedy.

(5) There has never been a POTUS who buddied up with dictator thugs, while dismissing damning facts provided by his own team and while alienating allies. [edit out redundancy]

(6) There has never been a POTUS who encouraged his followers to commit violence against fellow citizens behaving lawfully.

(7) There has never been a POTUS who presents themselves to the world as an infant -- constantly.

(8) There has never been a POTUS so woefully uninformed on the wide array of topics that POTUSes deal wth.

(9) There has never been a POTUS who received the depth and breadth of the blowback from their own party. (Glibly hand-waved away as "never Trumpers")

This is for sure...! Never has one individual embodied so many obnoxious, unhinged, anti-democratic characteristics. Claiming that this freak show is business as usual is flat out delusional.

(Every time I crank out a different version of this list, I leave off a few goodies.)

If anyone wishes to discuss any one of these, I'm game but busy. I'll respond as soon as I can.

 

[Hellbound]

A self-fulfilling prophecy: theprestige really doesn't like analogies so he nitpicks them to death so he can later say that analogies never work.

Yep, and start another pedant-filled nitpick of analogies that distracts from any useful discussion.

A flat tire needs to be fixed. That was the point. Yet let's focus on wording of a ruined trip and still beat this to death as if it meant anything useful.

It's annoyingly irrelevant, yet it's everywhere over here.

Done ranting, carry on all.

 

[sackett]

Well, about Boss Tweed: Other city machines might give a widow a bag of flour and a bushel of coal. Tweed's fellahs would give her a job sweeping floors at city hall.

About the Know Nothings: Hell's afire, they're still with us.

 

[johnny karate]

Oh, you think arguments are being made in this thread?

Yes, you made one. And it was terrible. The reason it is terrible is for the reason I already provided.

That's not what I said. I said:

Yes, I'm aware of what you said.

And this:

You could make a case that Trump is a uniquely bad President and I won’t even argue with you.

... is literally a concession.

Which means that I wouldn't be interested in arguing about how bad Trump is; he's bad enough for me to not be a big fan. But I would be interested in debating about whether or not the current GOP as a whole is uniquely bad in history because I don't think it's true. I am, however, open to good arguments that might convince me otherwise. Unfortunately, that debate hasn't even gotten started here.

Honestly, I don't think you are open to good arguments. I think you're more interested in pushing an agenda.

It hasn't even been established that the GOP is the getaway driver. Do that first.

And this pretty much proves my point.

You are demanding that we "establish" something that is common knowledge and happening right out in the open, i.e. the GOP enabling Trump by either carrying his water or turning a blind eye.

This is the same disingenuous game conservatives on this forum and elsewhere continue to play.

Just keep denying and make everyone else prove the same established facts over and over.

It's a method that bogs down the conversation and guarantees it can never more forward.

 

[llwyd]

Not uniquely - and 1850's Democrats were way worse. But obviously this current bunch is totally disgusting and shamelessly corrupt.

 

[theprestige]

A self-fulfilling prophecy: theprestige really doesn't like analogies so he nitpicks them to death so he can later say that analogies never work.

It's not just me. Everybody here nitpick analogies and rejects them. The only ones who accept analogies are those who were already convinced without the analogy.

 

[Belz...]

It's not just me. Everybody here nitpick analogies and rejects them.

You're unique in your stance on analogies, though. The others don't claim that analogies never work, so my comment, in fact, only applies to you.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's not just me. Everybody here nitpick analogies and rejects them. The only ones who accept analogies are those who were already convinced without the analogy.

Analogies are like Kate Middleton holding a basket of tortoises.

 

[Belz...]

Analogies are like Kate Middleton holding a basket of tortoises.

The basket's tortoises all the way down.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The basket's tortoises all the way down.

I was setting up an opening for a "snappy dresser" joke. Sometimes I feel like you people don't appreciate the royal family.

 

[Hellbound]

I was setting up an opening for a "snappy dresser" joke. Sometimes I feel like you people don't appreciate the royal family.

Don't be upset. Some of us just take a while to come out of our shell.

 

[theprestige]

Couldn't resist, could you? Anything to distract from any substantive point? Let's nitpick the analogy instead of discuss the point that literally everyone else can understand?

If you had a substantive point, you wouldn't need to appeal to a flat tire analogy. You could simply make your substantive point in terms of the thing itself.

Anyway, if I understand the gist of your analogy, you're arguing that Trump/the GOP isn't uniquely bad at this point in history, but they could still do with some fixing. Is that correct?

If it is, then you and I are probably in almost perfect agreement here. Probably we only disagree on the exact form the fix should take.

 

[TragicMonkey]

If you had a substantive point, you wouldn't need to appeal to a flat tire analogy. You could simply make your substantive point in terms of the thing itself.

Anyway, if I understand the gist of your analogy, you're arguing that Trump/the GOP isn't uniquely bad at this point in history, but they could still do with some fixing. Is that correct?

If it is, then you and I are probably in almost perfect agreement here. Probably we only disagree on the exact form the fix should take.

An airtight rubber patch glued in the right place would solve a great many problems. See? The analogy works!

 

[theprestige]

You're unique in your stance on analogies, though. The others don't claim that analogies never work, so my comment, in fact, only applies to you.

My "stance" is that I'm pointing out that everybody behaves badly around analogies, pretty much guaranteeing they'll never work, and yet all quietly pretending that arguments by analogy are actually useful. Drop the pretense and stop wasting everybody's time with analogies that aren't going to work anyway, is what I say.

 

[theprestige]

An airtight rubber patch glued in the right place would solve a great many problems. See? The analogy works!

Either you're literally advocating murder, or you're sending up the original argument for comedic purposes.

Either way, the analogy seems to be failing in your hands. Q.E.D.