Are atheists inevitably pessimists?

[Robin]

Why can't I tell an atheist that he's making a mistake?

Who said you couldn't? Certainly not me

Disagreeing with you does not in any way imply that you are not allowed to say the thing we disagree with.

I think they are inconsistent because you can't abandon --or refuse-- a religious project and think you can live without an alternative project

You are welcome to say that.

I disagree.

I don't think religion needs a replacement.

 

[Robin]

I think they are inconsistent because you can't abandon --or refuse-- a religious project and think you can live without an alternative project.
.

To me it is like saying that anyone who has cast a millstone off must find some other heavy.weight to chain themselves to

 

[The Common Potato]

What makes you think that's not so?

Everything you say. I used to be happy until I read your waffle. <<<--- this is not necessarily a serious comment.

 

[The Common Potato]

My life needs a meaning.

Good. Get on with it.

 

[Steve]

Don't you have a project for your life?

No

Are you defending the virtue of resignation or that everything is fine?

Neither

When you discover that life has no meaning an alternative is presented: either indifference or giving the one you choose.

Why only those two? As a professed philosopher your thinking is very limited.

Indifference seems to me to be an essentially inhuman attitude.

And therefore......?

 

[acbytesla]

Differences between God and Spiderman (let's leave Rita Hayworth for the moment):

The fundamental differences for our discussion have been summarized in the image of the Superfather.

I repeat:
God is the Allmighty Superfather understood as Providence, Love, Justice, etc. He explains everything and gives eternal life. In order to be elected to the eternal life, we only have to submit ourselves unreservedly to God... and his representatives on Earth.

The idea of the Superfather is that of a superior being who has the power to protect those who believe in him and offer a supreme reward or punishment.The image of a Superfather are the typical characteristics of the religions that are dominant in European and assimilated societies.

No one who has reached the age of reason (normal people) believes that Spiderman exists. Obviously no one can believe that Spiderman is a Superfather to him if he does not believe that he exists.

I hope the highlights help you understand what you don't understand.

Again, that is a how theists may define him/her/it. Atheists don't define it that way. To us Gods are exactly like Spiderman, as in ENTIRELY MYTHICAL. If you don't believe, you don't believe. You're not giving up anything and no dramatic questions apply.

Now if you want to say that coming to reality for some former theists cause challenges in their life I would agree. But people and their situations are not universal. Much of it depends on how much religion played a role in their lives. If they and their families were heavily involved in a church and a religious community, they might have issues dealing with those people. And there may be issues without the structure and support groups that their church offered.

But the vast majority of Americans who identify as theists don't attend regular religious services and most of them don't belong to a church. Almost no one reads their bible. For them it is rarely is much of an issue.

And finally, there are atheists who never believed. These people just roll their eyes.

So the next time you decide to pull some far reaching ignorant claim about other people out of your ass, think. Better yet, don't.

 

[The Common Potato]

I think...

Meh. That's where you started going wrong. Has it ever occurred to you that what we atheists (former Catholic public schoolboy, here) might actually know what we think and believe and don't need you to interpret for us?

I never believed in God - God of any type. i did believe in Santa Claus. My young self saw the evidence - presents arrived on Christmas Day. When you're six or seven, that's convincing. Then i saw presents in my mum's wardrobe. An existential worry? Nah, I grew up a bit and realised that Fr Christmas was a bit of BS.

 

[The Common Potato]

David Mo, Why do you need the verification of your ideas from the subgroup of a small hinterland of the internet?

Liverpool is the best football team in the world ever. I don't need anyone to tell me so. I'm probably wrong, but i'm not going to change my mind. That's faith.

 

[Darat]

What makes you think that's not so?

Your posts.

 

[The Common Potato]

Stop being cynical, Darat!

Edit: did you nick my cat, Olympuss? It looks the same.

 

[The Common Potato]

David Mo, What is your view on hepatitis B? https://youtu.be/48HoCwhlA80?t=422

 

[Czarcasm]

Differences between God and Spiderman (let's leave Rita Hayworth for the moment):

The fundamental differences for our discussion have been summarized in the image of the Superfather.

I repeat:
God is the Allmighty Superfather understood as Providence, Love, Justice, etc. He explains everything and gives eternal life. In order to be elected to the eternal life, we only have to submit ourselves unreservedly to God... and his representatives on Earth.

The idea of the Superfather is that of a superior being who has the power to protect those who believe in him and offer a supreme reward or punishment.The image of a Superfather are the typical characteristics of the religions that are dominant in European and assimilated societies.

No one who has reached the age of reason (normal people) believes that Spiderman exists. Obviously no one can believe that Spiderman is a Superfather to him if he does not believe that he exists.

I hope the highlights help you understand what you don't understand.

Nothing ticks me off more than the supposition that the only reason one might disagree with a premise is that one doesn't understand said premise-it hinges on the premise that you are incapable of being wrong. I understand you because I have been around people like you all my life, and I still think you are wrong.

 

[Robin]

When you discover that life has no meaning an alternative is presented: either indifference or giving the one you choose.

You have an unexamined premise there - that life must have meaning.

Indifference seems to me to be an essentially inhuman attitude.

I am indifferent as to who wins the World Curling Championship. Does that make me inhuman?

It all depends upon whether or not the thing that we are indifferent to matters.

I don't see how it matters that life has no meaning.

 

[Steve]

You have an unexamined premise there - that life must have meaning.

I am indifferent as to who wins the World Curling Championship. Does that make me inhuman?
It all depends upon whether or not the thing that we are indifferent to matters.

I don't see how it matters that life has no meaning.

I speak for many Canadians when I say “Yes!!!”

 

[quadraginta]

I speak for many Canadians when I say “Yes!!!”

In spite on not being Canadian I can concur.

It does not, however, diminish my weird fascination with watching the sport in play, regardless of who wins.

Yes, I know, I can probably get counselling for this, but it is such a harmless aberration.

Unlike the problem of who wins in the religion championships, which can have serious implications for the welfare of humanity.

I suspect the answer is much like the conclusion WOPR reached.

"The only winning move is not to play."

 

[Robin]

I knew I should have said "Quidditch".

 

[David Mo]

Again, that is a how theists may define him/her/it. Atheists don't define it that way. (...)
Now if you want to say that coming to reality for some former theists cause challenges in their life I would agree. But people and their situations are not universal. Much of it depends on how much religion played a role in their lives. (...).

I'm not talking about the definition of "god." I'm talking about the way believers imagine and feel their god.
I'm not talking about all those who declare themselves members of a church or belief. I am talking about those who really believe in a god that is similar to the so-called religions of the Book, because these are the religions that I know and have influence in our contemporary society.
I am not saying that all atheists consider the meaning of existence or, in other words, a vital project. There are those who do not consciously pose the problem and pretend that they have no life project. This is a mistake that I have tried to explain. Everyone has an idea more or less conscious of what they want to make of his life, which corresponds to that I call a vital project.

I am amazed that this so simple idea can provoke so many rabid responses and so few rational comments. You have a problem, truly.

 

[David Mo]

Nothing ticks me off more than the supposition that the only reason one might disagree with a premise is that one doesn't understand said premise-it hinges on the premise that you are incapable of being wrong. I understand you because I have been around people like you all my life, and I still think you are wrong.

What makes you think I think only I'm right? I am asking the question because I have already asked a couple of colleagues and they do not know what to say. Let's see if you can explain it to me.

When I say that someone hasn't understood me, I explain what the mistake lies in. The opposite is a very typical singsong of forum members who do not know what to say to an objection.

 

[David Mo]

Meh. That's where you started going wrong. Has it ever occurred to you that what we atheists (former Catholic public schoolboy, here) might actually know what we think and believe and don't need you to interpret for us?

I'm not interpreting you. I tell you that you are mistaken. Can't stand to be told that you're wrong?

 

[David Mo]

You have an unexamined premise there - that life must have meaning.

I am indifferent as to who wins the World Curling Championship. Does that make me inhuman?

It all depends upon whether or not the thing that we are indifferent to matters.

The life project that gives meaning to our lives includes things that matter to us and things that do not. Except for hooligans, I don't think mass sport is important. Normally we give preference to our family life, friends, professional life, art, etc. As a whole, it's what we call "the world".

When I spoke of indifference, I meant total indifference, especially to important things. I think that kind of indifference is not human, because what is human is concern. That is, to be concerned about. (I think that "concern" is better than "worry" in English).