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The Trump Presidency: Sweet/Sweat 16

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phiwum said:
How could a president put any permanent limits in place? If he did it by executive order, it could be rescinded by the next president. Laws passed by Congress can be repealed. Even amendments can be undone, though unlikely.
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In the end, there is really no defense against voters messing up and putting bad people into office. That is Democracy's achilles heel. You can't fix that by any law or rule.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Send him a copy of Howard Zin's A People’s History of the United States. I believe he includes a chapter on how unprepared US students are for history classes when they reach college because they've only been taught the fairy tale version.
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Howard Zinn's version is just as wonky as the Fairy Tale Version.
He goes to the other extreme.
 
Stacyhs said:
It would be a waste of time. He's one of those who sees everything through a black and white lens; he sees no gray. Libtards=bad America haters, Conservatives=good patriots.
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True, but ..as someone who has a Bachelor Degree in History...Zinn's version is pretty black and white also.
 
a_unique_person said:
That is what the Electoral College is supposed to prevent.
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How would the Electorial COllge prevent people from voting a bunch of idiots into congress?
My point is ANY Democratic system is vulnerable to the stupidity of voters..and there is no easy fix.
 
dudalb said:
Howard Zinn's version is just as wonky as the Fairy Tale Version.
He goes to the other extreme.
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It's off topic or I'd fight you on this one. Historians are never perfect. But you can't compare a realistic version that may not get everything right with fairy tales like Betsy Ross and Washington's cherry tree.
 
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Well, a lot of things in a democracy are fundamentally based on convention, on a kind of a common trust that "that sort of thing cannot be done". Obviously there are laws and courts, checks and balances, but they too are surprisingly largely based on convention too. "If the president does this, the Congress and the courts will prevent him." But what if they don't - the laws still exist, but they are not enforced. This is what is currently happening in many Western states, not just the US. Scary times. And, yes, the fundamental problem is not Trump but the fact that he got elected and is still blindly supported by over 40% of the voters and one of the two major parties. That is simply terrifying.
 
Horatius said:
Okay, so is this just standard Trump BS, or did someone actually tell him exactly who made the complaint, and exactly what they were complaining about?

Both are bad, but the second is far worse, I think, because avoiding retribution by powerful malefactors is exactly why we have whistleblower protection laws. If Trump has any of this information, then someone in his employ has just **** all over that law, too.
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'Everyone' at the White House has read the whistleblower report, in another blatant violation of law

When it comes to the White House staff, Trump says, “Everybody’s read it, they laughed at it.” Because that’s what you do with a whistleblower report that the inspector general of the intelligence community described as “urgent” and “credible.”

The New York Times’ coverage of the report also noted, “Administration officials have shared at least some details of the accusations with the White House, to allow officials to weigh whether to assert executive privilege.”
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Well... Trump *might* not know who did it (Just that it's not a Republican who did it, supposedly). Looks like he sure knows what the complaint is, though.

Segnosaur said:
The law is pretty clear: Congress can request anyone's tax returns. Mnuchin is likely breaking the law by ignoring the request.
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FTFY.

Segnosaur said:
So no, the House didn't simply sit on its hands waiting for the Tax returns to fall into their laps via Deutche bank. They are taking available legal channels. (Unless the committee members stage a break-in at the IRS to retrieve them, I'm not really sure what else can be done.)
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They're taking available legal channels for a bunch of things. With that said, though, for the tax returns... at last check, NY passed a law that would allow Congress to obtain Trump's tax returns from NY and the House Democrats pretty much said no thank you, apparently, and I don't recall any actual reasoning given for that.

In other news... Trump's sending troops to Saudi Arabia.

That, while Russia pounds on Ukraine.

Russia is attacking Ukraine all along the invasion battlefront in Donbas. To 19:00 on September 20th, Russian armed forces bombarded or assaulted Krymske, Novoluhanske, Pivdenne, Krasnohorivka, Maryinka, Novotroitske, Novohnativka, Pavlopil, and Vodyane.
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dudalb said:
We will no longer have President, but a king.
I know I will get a lot of flak for this, but if that happens it's time to start preparing for "The Appeal To Arms";it's last resort time, folks.
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Flak? If things actually get to that point, it could be necessary. It'd be ugly, though, to say the least. Thankfully, we're very likely not there... yet. If Trump wins another term, though...
 
dudalb said:
My point is ANY Democratic system is vulnerable to the stupidity of voters..and there is no easy fix.
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Ignorance, more than stupidity, I think. Democracy is completely dependant on voters actually taking the time to properly inform themselves before they cast their votes. If they are wilfully ignorant, if they are happy to blindly swallow whatever lies most appeal to their prejudices, they can be easily manipulated into voting against their own best interests and in the interests of the scumbags who are doing the manipulating. That is when democracy fails, and 2016 saw two catastrophic failures of democracy on both sides of the Atlantic.
 
Someone in Congress needs to scold the Rs about their 'courage' to send troops into combat and potentially lose their lives, contrasted against their cowardice to do the right thing out of fear of losing their lousy jobs. Shame the spineless toe rags into finding some glimmer of a conscience.
 
Trump Tweets

I want to express my gratitude to America’s magnificent @FLOTUS for tonight’s exquisite evening where we celebrated more than a century of loyal and devoted friendship between USA and Australia Both of our nations are blessed by uncommon courage, unfailing commitment, and unyielding character!
 
Trump Tweets

The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, want to stay as far away as possible from the Joe Biden demand that the Ukrainian Government fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son, or they won’t get a very large amount of U.S. money, so they fabricate a.....

....story about me and a perfectly fine and routine conversation I had with the new President of the Ukraine. Nothing was said that was in any way wrong, but Biden’s demand, on the other hand, was a complete and total disaster. The Fake News knows this but doesn’t want to report!
 
Lurch said:
Someone in Congress needs to scold the Rs about their 'courage' to send troops into combat and potentially lose their lives, contrasted against their cowardice to do the right thing out of fear of losing their lousy jobs. Shame the spineless toe rags into finding some glimmer of a conscience.
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You really think you can shame people who are Trump apologists?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Send him a copy of Howard Zin's A People’s History of the United States. I believe he includes a chapter on how unprepared US students are for history classes when they reach college because they've only been taught the fairy tale version.
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As someone who came of age in the 60s, I believe that the primary motivation for the cultural revolution that happened then was wide-spread recognition that the existing culture was so far different from what we were taught in school and shown on TV -- segregation and the Vietnam war being just two examples. In my more optimistic moments, I am hopeful that we are seeing the beginning of a second cultural revolution in today's youth, perhaps not as dramatic but one that will save us from our current self-destructive trajectory. At the very least, I am hopeful that they will save us from the Party of Trump in 2020.
 
Trump Tweets

Now that the Democrats and the Fake News Media have gone “bust” on every other of their Witch Hunt schemes, they are trying to start one just as ridiculous as the others, call it the Ukraine Witch Hunt, while at the same time trying to protect Sleepy Joe Biden. Will fail again!
 
Not Democrats. His own elected officials.
The Intelligence Inspector General (his pick) after investigating found their to be a credible claim by the whistle-blower. The IG passed it on to the Acting DNI (his pick) and found it to be an urgent concern.
 
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