Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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ceptimus said:
How many times do you need to read this before it sinks in? The Conservatives, after 2017, only had a working majority with DUP support, and the DUP vowed they would never support Mrs May's deal.
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How many times do you need to be told to stop lying? The 2nd and 3rd votes were lost because Tories didn't support the deal. The 1st one would have tied.
 
ponderingturtle said:
You assume he equates rejecting Mays deal with voting against leaving. While it is certainly true that if it passed the UK would no be out of the EU, I have a feeling it is unlikely that he views the vote as a vote against leaving.
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Then he's dishonest.

That sentence also works without the word 'then'. I assume I'm blocked by him as are all facts.
 
Just struck me that our big time Brexit supporter here seems fine with democracy and rule of law going under in the UK just as long as the UK leaves the EU.
And, I repeat, you have to wonder how widepread in the EU the "we are better off without that gang of idiots" opinion is,behind closed doors.
 
dudalb said:
Someone cue "Men Of Harlech"...…

Frankly, I don't think Wales is economically viable on it's own.
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That's what has been said about every colony that ever wanted to leave and as far as I know there aren't any examples of countries that regret being independent.

ETA: Wales isn't a huge country but there are a hell of a lot of smaller ones.
 
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dudalb said:
Just struck me that our big time Brexit supporter here seems fine with democracy and rule of law going under in the UK just as long as the UK leaves the EU.
And, I repeat, you have to wonder how widepread in the EU the "we are better off without that gang of idiots" opinion is,behind closed doors.
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It depends on how much the EU think it's a temporary problem. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. So do you wait it out?
 
ceptimus said:
It's nothing to do with bullying. It's about negotiating. When you go to buy a car, the car dealer is much richer than you, and they hold all the cars! But you make them your offer, and if they don't accept it you walk away. Miraculously, sometimes as you turn to walk out, they change their minds and accept your offer. This is negotiation 101.

You'll never get a good deal buying a car by telling the salesman that you're going to buy it whatever happens, and then asking for the best deal he can offer.
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Poor analogy. Your reasoning is defective because the car dealer doesn't hold all the cars. You can just go down the road and find another dealer instead who has a car in your price range.

A better analogy is you club together with 27 other people to buy a Lamborgini, as a pooled car. You decide you don't like the French and German guy laying down the rules so you want out. You threaten to withhold your share of the next instalment unless they allow you to carry on as normal, except the rules are not to apply to you.
 
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Vixen said:
5 out of five = 100%

Other prime ministers have had a higher number of defeats. May had 33 lost.
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Apparently, according to one poster here, that has nothing to do with the Tory party being so split and in disarray.
 
John Crace:

"His defeat in the Grieve humble address was his fifth. One more was to come before the night was out. History in the making. Johnson had gambled and failed abjectly. He had imagined prorogation and a general election as a brilliant play. His finest hour. Instead he was only further diminished. Hubris, thy name is Boris. Classic Dom."
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
That's what has been said about every colony that ever wanted to leave and as far as I know there aren't any examples of countries that regret being independent.

ETA: Wales isn't a huge country but there are a hell of a lot of smaller ones.
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I get a feeling, that, deep down, you just plain hate the English.
 
Lothian said:
Here is my solution for solving the issue of Brexit.

1. Withdraw article 50
2. Negotiate a new deal with the EU
3. Hold a new referendum with remain, leave on deal, and leave on no deal options. Single transferable vote.
4. Enact that result the day after the referendum.

Having 'leave on no deal' on the referendum paper keeps the threat Ceptimus refers to and encourages the EU to deliver the best deal they can.
Vote leave said we should negotiate a deal before serving article 50 and leave immediately after. I am suggesting we now do what people supporting leave were told would happen.
If all those wanting to leave, as we are told, just want to leave no matter how, then one of those two options will win.
A fairly short timetable on negotiating the new deal can be applied. Given the no deal option on the referendum there is an incentive for both sides.
This could be done by the end of the year.
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My own solution would be, and I am sure the EU would accept it, to go the Norway route. It fulfills the referendum result and does not go beyond. Then it will be up to successive governments to make further changes to the relationship by first campaigning on those ideas in elections.
 
Boris Johnson landed a killer blow on Corbyn tonight. b"The leader of the Opposition cannot lead"

er... on second thoughts, it probably sounds better coming ftom a PM without a 100% loss rate.
 
jimbob said:
Boris Johnson landed a killer blow on Corbyn tonight. b"The leader of the Opposition cannot lead"

er... on second thoughts, it probably sounds better coming ftom a PM without a 100% loss rate.
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Oh, the commentators and comedians will have a field day with that one.

Corbyn IMHO is a poor leader, but Boris is a horrendous one. People who live in glass houses, etc.
 
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