Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Amazer said:
Because they aren't competent enough to come up with a deal that commands majority support in Parliament and which upholds the GFA and which is acceptable to the EU.

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No. May wasn't competent to come up with a deal that could pass - because she was, at heart, a remainer.

The Brexit-supporting MPs not only got rid of her rubbish deal, they got rid of her too! How anyone can portray this as incompetence on their part beggars belief.
 
ceptimus said:
No. May wasn't competent to come up with a deal that could pass - because she was, at heart, a remainer.

The Brexit-supporting MPs not only got rid of her rubbish deal, they got rid of her too! How anyone can portray this as incompetence on their part beggars belief.
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Because May was the only one to actually come up with a plan?
Farage washed his hands 2 seconds after the referendum and none of the others ever actually came up with a realistic brexit plan either?

The only thing ever to come from the brexit camp is what they don't want, so what they will get eventually is nothing. It's a pity for the British I guess, but at least the UK will be a good example of the work together or hang separately attitude the small European economies will need if they want to deal with China and the US.
 
ceptimus said:
No. May wasn't competent to come up with a deal that could pass - because she was, at heart, a remainer.

The Brexit-supporting MPs not only got rid of her rubbish deal, they got rid of her too! How anyone can portray this as incompetence on their part beggars belief.
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I thought it was a succession of Leave-supporting Brexit secretaries who were responsible for coming up with a deal. Of course they couldn't have the "all the benefits and none of the responsibilities" unicorns and rainbows deal that they said that they were going to get - what with all the government's red lines and all.

So I guess the Leave supporters now get what they apparently want - no deal - despite this being repeatedly dismissed as a possibility by the Leave campaign.
 
And yet more history rewriting in an attempt to show that a No Deal Brexit is what they all (that is all Leavers) wanted in the first place.

And, of course, no balls to actually say this should be taken to the country to see whether that is actually correct.
 
Tolls said:
And yet more history rewriting in an attempt to show that a No Deal Brexit is what they all (that is all Leavers) wanted in the first place.

And, of course, no balls to actually say this should be taken to the country to see whether that is actually correct.
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Because the Leavers know that they'd lose that vote most likely

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The Don said:
I thought it was a succession of Leave-supporting Brexit secretaries who were responsible for coming up with a deal.
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Then you were wrong. None of them were allowed to do what they wanted by their boss, May - that's why they resigned. May didn't even bother to pretend that the latest one she appointed, Barclay, was anything other than her mouthpiece.
 
Tolls said:
And yet more history rewriting in an attempt to show that a No Deal Brexit is what they all (that is all Leavers) wanted in the first place.

And, of course, no balls to actually say this should be taken to the country to see whether that is actually correct.
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Wrong again. They all want a deal - including Boris and Rees Mogg. What they won't accept is May's surrender deal.
 
What they won't accept is reality.

And the reality is May's deal or out with nothing.

Actually, the reality is a general election, which is what Johnson's bribes are all about.
 
ceptimus said:
Then you were wrong. None of them were allowed to do what they wanted by their boss, May - that's why they resigned. May didn't even bother to pretend that the latest one she appointed, Barclay, was anything other than her mouthpiece.
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Completely rewriting history again I see :rolleyes:
 
No. You're the one attempting to do that.

Let's look at the evidence. First, everyone calls it "Mrs May's deal" - not the Davis-Raab deal or some similar name. Next, you will remember May gathering all her cabinet together at Chequers last autumn to force through her deal - it was 'accept my deal or be sacked'. Sacking meant that the cabinet ministers couldn't even use their ministerial cars to get back home, so Davis and Johnson chose instead to resign in the days immediately following. Last, we all know why Raab resigned, because he told us at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46221896
 
They call it May's deal because she was PM, and they want to ensure that she (and not them) get tagged with it.

And last autumn was over two years after the referendum, and after Davis had resigned.
Remember Davis? The guy who lied about having detailed economic impact statements? Who couldn't be arsed to actually be present during most of the negotiations? Arch Brexiter? That one?

No.
The failures were down to Leavers and their inability to accept reality.
 
ceptimus said:
No. You're the one attempting to do that.

Let's look at the evidence. First, everyone calls it "Mrs May's deal" - not the Davis-Raab deal or some similar name. Next, you will remember May gathering all her cabinet together at Chequers last autumn to force through her deal - it was 'accept my deal or be sacked'. Sacking meant that the cabinet ministers couldn't even use their ministerial cars to get back home, so Davis and Johnson chose instead to resign in the days immediately following. Last, we all know why Raab resigned, because he told us at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46221896
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It's called Mrs May's deal because she's the one who presented to parliament after a succession of Leave-supporting Brexit secretaries comprehensively failed to negotiate anything else/better. That doesn't mean that they weren't given every opportunity and that they didn't significantly shape the deal.

Of course they were fundamentally hamstrung from the start by the red lines which prevented EEA or customs union membership (although the Leave campaign promised both - though to be fair the Remain campaign pointed out that they were both incompatible with the Leave campaign's demands) but then again the hardline Brexiteers wanted more and more robust redlines so it's unlikely they would have been able to extract a "better" deal.

So now we end up with no deal at all and WTO terms :mad:
 
Tolls said:
They call it May's deal because she was PM, and they want to ensure that she (and not them) get tagged with it.

And last autumn was over two years after the referendum, and after Davis had resigned.
Remember Davis? The guy who lied about having detailed economic impact statements? Who couldn't be arsed to actually be present during most of the negotiations? Arch Brexiter? That one?

No.
The failures were down to Leavers and their inability to accept reality.
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Davis resigned AFTER Mrs May summoned the cabinet to Chequers and told them all to support her deal or be sacked.
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I apologise for saying 'autumn' I see the Chequers meeting was on 6th July, so I should have said 'summer'.
 
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How long did that lazy toad Davis spend negotiating the easiest deal in history within May's red lines before he realised that wasn't Brexit at all?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
How long did that lazy toad Davis spend negotiating the easiest deal in history within May's red lines before he realised that wasn't Brexit at all?
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No good attempting to blame him. Davis didn't even want to agree to allow the EU to separate the 'divorce deal' from the 'future trade deal'. If he'd been allowed by May to negotiate the way he wanted (more like Boris is attempting to now) then we'd never have had May's pathetic deal in the first place and we wouldn't have wasted almost two years...
 
"Our brilliant, flawless, all-icing cake, will-basically-implement-itself of a plan is only seeming to not work out because of coordinated acts of sabotage and subterfuge!"

Be careful, this is where populist demagoguery turns from "distrust outsiders" to a more insidious "distrust each other."
 
ceptimus said:
No good attempting to blame him. Davis didn't even want to agree to allow the EU to separate the 'divorce deal' from the 'future trade deal'. If he'd been allowed by May to negotiate the way he wanted (more like Boris is attempting to now) then we'd never have had May's pathetic deal in the first place and we wouldn't have wasted almost two years...
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So I shouldn't blame him for wasting all that time negotiating a deal he didn't want. I should blame the EU for consistently saying they would not negotiate a new deal while we were still members, hence the need for a withdrawal agreement. He should just have demanded they do because, let me guess, they need us more than we need them?
 
ceptimus said:
No good attempting to blame him. Davis didn't even want to agree to allow the EU to separate the 'divorce deal' from the 'future trade deal'. If he'd been allowed by May to negotiate the way he wanted (more like Boris is attempting to now) then we'd never have had May's pathetic deal in the first place and we wouldn't have wasted almost two years...
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What negotiations has Boris undertaken? None at all. Boris has no plan. What alternative to May's deal do the Brexiteers have? None at all.
 
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