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Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

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ceptimus said:
No. It takes two sides to negotiate. The EU would have had us under their control and would have kept us there forever. It was in their interests to keep us in the backstop, where we could not compete with them on a level playing field.
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More of your usual drivel.
 
Amazer said:
Canada and those other countries do not have the rather unique situation that the isle of Eire and the Good Friday Agreement bring into the mix.

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Sigh. Diverting for a moment from Britain's current self-immolation would people (firstly) stop using this term as it is, quite simply, wrong. Even the UK government eventually managed to comprehend this fact.
Secondly it is not applied to the island of Ireland.
Finally it's "Éire".
 
KDLarsen said:
Nick Robinson is positing that Johnson's plan is to prepare for a no-deal Brexit and hope the EU27 blinks. If that fails, try to get no-deal through Parliament and hope someone blinks. And if that fails, call for an early election (Labour will be happy to provide the votes to get 2/3 of the HoC votes needed to hold one).
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According to colleagues, including those who actually like him, Boris doesn't "do" plans so it's unlikely he has such a comprehensive approach as this.
 
catsmate said:
Sigh. Diverting for a moment from Britain's current self-immolation would people (firstly) stop using this term as it is, quite simply, wrong. Even the UK government eventually managed to comprehend this fact.

Secondly it is not applied to the island of Ireland.

Finally it's "Éire".
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Well, learned something today. Thank you.

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Aber said:
European Standards bodies are not EU organisation - they have wider membership

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Committee_for_Standardization
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The EU, EFTA and people joining the EU in the near future or attempting to.

And note that generally members don't all have the same voting rights.

Membership for BSI has been agreed during a transition period until 2020 but that doesn't mean that it will continue beyond that necessarily or on the same terms.
 
ceptimus said:
The EU WANTS to have high import tariffs on oranges to protect its Spanish (and elsewhere) orange growers, so when it negotiates trade deals with orange growing countries it takes that into account. The UK doesn't have any orange growing industry, so doesn't need such tariffs.
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It follows that we could negotiate a tarriff free orange deal with a third country. How would the EU then prevent their high orange tariffs being circumvented via a tariff free entry into NI and onward to the EU via Eire.
This is just oranges. The EU have tariffs on hundreds of thousands of goods. Each time we get a better deal outside the EU then EU business are threatened by goods being routed via Ireland. How will they protect their businesses? How will third countries protect their businesses from EU exports, normally subject to tariffs routed via the UK.
Obviously a hard border would work. A remote border doesn't speed anything up is just moves the queue location. It also makes smuggling easier. The more advantageous our trade deals the greater the threat to the EU and the more the need for a hard border.
Good Friday is not compatible with the UK being outside of a customs union with Eire. Either we remain in the EU customs union or we let Eire have NI.
 
ceptimus said:
I''ll give you one for a starter. Philip Hammond, the most important job in cabinet apart from the PM herself. She appointed him immediately she became PM. He's always been staunchly remain and obstructed no-deal preparations at every turn. Now that he can no longer force his will on government, he has petulantly resigned in the most grandstanding manner imaginable, and vowed to continue to obstruct the will of the people from the back benches - up to and including bringing down his own government.
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You claimed May's "cabinet and ministers stuffed full of remainers." When asked to substantiate that claim, you have managed to name just one person. Unsurprisingly.
 
ceptimus said:
How many remainers do you want me to list? You can start with all the ones that are resigning, add in May herself and Amber Rudd, who seems to be the most prominent remainer that still wishes to remain in the cabinet.
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You made the claim, so you should be able to list them, along with a comparative list of Leave supporters that proves your claim that
May's "cabinet and ministers stuffed full of remainers."

Look, it's not difficult. Give us your list of Remainers and a list of Leavers, so you can prove that there were more of the former than the latter.
 
ceptimus said:
The UK can make things it wants to export to the EU meet EU standards in just the same way that it has to make things for export to the USA meet USA standards.

There's no need for the UK to make everything that isn't for export to the EU meet EU standards - those goods will meet British Standards or the standards of the country they're for export to.
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Manufacturers generally meet the standards of the country with the highest that they export to. They don't produce lesser versions with markets for lower standards. Look at something like a laptap PSU or even a mobile phone charger, and you'll see multiple compliance symbols.
 
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KDLarsen said:
Nick Robinson is positing that Johnson's plan is to prepare for a no-deal Brexit and hope the EU27 blinks. If that fails, try to get no-deal through Parliament and hope someone blinks. And if that fails, call for an early election (Labour will be happy to provide the votes to get 2/3 of the HoC votes needed to hold one).
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BJ doesn’t have to get Parliament to agree to a no deal Brexit, all he needs to do is create enough disagreement that they don’t pass anything that would entice the EU to extend the current deadline.

The Don said:
According to colleagues, including those who actually like him, Boris doesn't "do" plans so it's unlikely he has such a comprehensive approach as this.
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He seems qualified to create the disagreement I referred to above.
 
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lomiller said:
BJ doesn’t have to get Parliament to agree to a no deal Brexit, all he needs to do is create enough disagreement that they don’t pass anything that would entice the EU to extend the current deadline.
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True, but I guess Robinson is referring to the fact that while Parliament has repeatedly rejected a no-deal Brexit, it has yet to actually vote for an alternative. So Johnson can go to the House of Commons, lay out a no-deal Brexit scenario, and effectively dare the House to do something about it, either via passing an alternative piece of legislation or by passing a VONC.

And even if he lost a VONC, it would still mean a no-deal Brexit unless alternative legislation was passed.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The Lib Dems have put forward a VONC but the leader of the Opposition will back the Tories again.
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Now's not the right time to put a VONC on BoJo and his motley crew of desperados of the worst kind.

It would just look like an ad hominem , aimed at the person or for vexatious reason. For a VONC to succeed it needs to be based on performance, or lack thereof.

The time to do a VONC is when Halloween approaches and there is no sign 'we are leaving, do or die', as BoJo promised. Or when he does a volte face - as he will - about selling the NHS by the pound to Trump private medical insurers.

The timing was off on the call for a VONC in Theresa May which meant she was off the hook.
 
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