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Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Except where it facilitates it by having substantial FTAs in place with places like Korea, Japan, Canada, etc.



Who is the World's number 1 producer of oranges? Brazil
Who is currently negotiating an FTA with Brazil? The EU
Who would have to apply WTO tariffs to any imports of oranges from Brazil? The UK

Are there countries which import Oranges to the EU in substantial numbers?

Why yes. South Africa (who have an FTA) and Egypt (who have an FTA)



Except they aren't. And in any case, its much better to favour Spanish oranges over Brazilian or South African oranges because we want to reduce food miles.



No they're really aren't. Oranges certainly aren't one of them. Only about a third of UK fruit imports come from the EU the rest from South America and Africa predominantly.


So overall grade on your analysis a C-. Much improvement needed.
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You just don't understand do you? Or perhaps you do and are just deliberately being dense for the sake of trolling. The EU WANTS to have high import tariffs on oranges to protect its Spanish (and elsewhere) orange growers, so when it negotiates trade deals with orange growing countries it takes that into account. The UK doesn't have any orange growing industry, so doesn't need such tariffs.
 
ceptimus said:
The UK can make things it wants to export to the EU meet EU standards in just the same way that it has to make things for export to the USA meet USA standards.
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Again, this is possible because you stop at a checkpoint and go though customs when you bring Chinese products into the EU.

ceptimus said:
Absolutely no need to remain part of the EU customs union to do any of that. Do you think China is in the EU customs union? EU citizens buy tons of stuff from China and would buy even more if they were allowed to.
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Note that this probably doesn’t just apply to products that come directly from China. Eg Canada and the US have had free trade agreements for decades. You can bring US products into Canada without paying any duty, but because Canada and the US have different tariff rates with China if you go to the US, buy a product made in China then try to bring it into Canada you still have to pay the duty on it. Trading with a partner that has different trade agreements than you do is complicated business.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Of course treating different EU countries differently with regard to migration is also an issue.
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No, the CTA has been around far longer than the EU (or the EEC) and the EU had no affect on it. It is not an issue and it will remain unchanged, unless the UK and Ireland decide to change it.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Except they really don't in practice- international standards are a mish-mash generally but there are only really a few bodies that are creating standards and most others just take something off the shelf.

In the real world the only ones that really matter are EU, China, US and maybe Japan who sometimes have oddball standards on things.

In truth there is a lot of alignment across all of these standards anyway as generally they are all based on each other with maybe a few additions or amendments.
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Yes and many standards are simple to comply with. Hence many electrical items have a plug in lead, to overcome different standards of plug, or power supplies to overcome different standards of power supply.

It is not really and issue, except that instead of having a say in the EU standards, we will give that up and have to comply with what they tell us to comply with.

Brexiteers call that returning sovereignty to the UK.
 
ceptimus said:
You just don't understand do you? Or perhaps you do and are just deliberately being dense for the sake of trolling. The EU WANTS to have high import tariffs on oranges to protect its Spanish (and elsewhere) orange growers, so when it negotiates trade deals with orange growing countries it takes that into account. The UK doesn't have any orange growing industry, so doesn't need such tariffs.
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And yet the EU has negotiated FTAs with orange producing countries that are reducing the tariffs on oranges. And the UK has ... nothing.

So literally all that will happen on 'Independence Day' is Spanish oranges will be subject to import tariffs. Great
 
Nessie said:
No, the CTA has been around far longer than the EU (or the EEC) and the EU had no affect on it. It is not an issue and it will remain unchanged, unless the UK and Ireland decide to change it.
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The US had no need for visas for britians and other EU nations needed them this became a problem. Just like an open border with Ireland changes when you leave the EU because these things are not just between Ireland and the UK but the obligations and responsibilities to the EU come into play as well. So the people voted against those old laws that got replaced by the EU anyway so what?

All that really means is that it would be illegal for the UK to leave the coverage of the free trade and travel zone. So no borders with the EU.
 
Greebo said:
Not exactly world wide - but close
They cover a wide range of topics,manufactured products and technology to food safety, agriculture and healthcare
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Even within ISO compliant standards there can be differences. For example building codes differ between Canada and the US, this means that even though both are ISO complaint you can’t buy an electrical panel in the US and install it in Canada.
 
Nessie said:
Yes and many standards are simple to comply with. Hence many electrical items have a plug in lead, to overcome different standards of plug, or power supplies to overcome different standards of power supply.

It is not really and issue, except that instead of having a say in the EU standards, we will give that up and have to comply with what they tell us to comply with.

Brexiteers call that returning sovereignty to the UK.
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A friend who was MD of a global bridge building company thinks that this will be the most damaging aspect of Brexit. By being out of the loop when it comes to setting international standards, the UK will become a standards consumer and over time will become more reliant on producing cheaper commodity items rather than more added value innovative items.
 
ceptimus said:
The UK can make things it wants to export to the EU meet EU standards in just the same way that it has to make things for export to the USA meet USA standards.

There's no need for the UK to make everything that isn't for export to the EU meet EU standards - those goods will meet British Standards or the standards of the country they're for export to.

Absolutely no need to remain part of the EU customs union to do any of that. Do you think China is in the EU customs union? EU citizens buy tons of stuff from China and would buy even more if they were allowed to.
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From that article again:
There are 65 (agreements) between the EU and China, of which 13 are bilateral.
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ceptimus said:
I do understand. The UK does much more trade with the EU, is much closer, and right now is 100% compliant with all their standards. Therefore it stands to reason that the EU should offer the UK a much better trade deal than the one they've agreed with Canada.
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That isn’t how trade deals work. Even the concept of a better deal is somewhat questionable as the best trade deal would actually be one were there are no tariffs or protective policies on anything. In practice but both sides have industries they want to protect and work in rules to do that even with a trade deal in place. The more trade you do the more likely it is that industry groups will dig in their heels and demand protection from imported products.

The EU isn’t going to give the UK a deal where the UK is protecting it’s own products while the EU isn’t doing the same. If anything, the EU being the larger market will try to use that leverage to it’s advantage. If you want a model for how EU-UK trade will look, look at Canada-US trade.
 
Wudang said:
From the article I referred to
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Not only that, they seem to be forgetting that currently the hidden barriers the EU creates doesn’t just protect Spanish Orange growers they protect UK business as well. If the UK is no longer part of the EU, these will be the first protections dropped. Even with a trade deal UK business are not going to enjoy the privileged access they currently have to the EU market.

Eg the US does nothing to give Canadian imports an advantage over other imports, the EU for now does try to give UK products an advantage in the EU market. post Brexit that would look more like the US Canada relationship.
 
Problem with the Brixiters is they think the British Empire is still around, and the UK has a huge empire to take the place of Europe when it comes to trade.
IMHO the idea that the UK is somehow now part of Europe is a delusion that simply will not die among a certain part of the British Populatation.
 
Nick Robinson is positing that Johnson's plan is to prepare for a no-deal Brexit and hope the EU27 blinks. If that fails, try to get no-deal through Parliament and hope someone blinks. And if that fails, call for an early election (Labour will be happy to provide the votes to get 2/3 of the HoC votes needed to hold one).
 
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