Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

[thaiboxerken]

So, how does "we should let in every immigrant" stop them?

Why stop them?

 

[Belz...]

I think you're making NWO's point. He's taking the Skeptic Tank track - diversity is the road to failure.

How am I doing that by pointing out that lack of diversity leads to failure?

"Diversity is our Strength/Makes Us Stronger!" is a very, very flawed thesis that has seldom borne out in reality.

No it's not. You can't seriously use the fact that some people have taken this idea too far or in ridiculous directions to attack the idea itself. It's like pointing to people who've drowned to argue that "you should drink water" is a terrible idea.

 

[Belz...]

You realize there's some daylight between "multicultural wonderland of friendship" and "let's lock children in cages?"



As has been repeatedly put back to you: so what? Does cruel treatment somehow become not cruel because others are also doing it?



Are you saying we should consider that perspective to be admirable?

Interesting that this was entirely ignored.

 

[Belz...]

just another horror in a world growing accustomed to worse.

By the same logic we should let people murder each other because, hey, there's worse, right?

 

[Belz...]

Except, it has already become normalised in Australia, and has been since the Howard Administration.

Who. Gives. A. Toss?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

How am I doing that by pointing out that lack of diversity leads to failure?



No it's not. You can't seriously use the fact that some people have taken this idea too far or in ridiculous directions to attack the idea itself. It's like pointing to people who've drowned to argue that "you should drink water" is a terrible idea.

So, after both countries recovered from ww2, why did Japan prosper and why did the Ussr stagnate and collapse? If diversity is a strength the reverse should have happened.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So, after both countries recovered from ww2, why did Japan prosper and why did the Ussr stagnate and collapse? If diversity is a strength the reverse should have happened.

Because no other factors play a part in a countries success or failure, amiright?

 

[ponderingturtle]

The US Holocaust Museum is dead wrong in this case. How on earth are you going to have a "never again" if you're not allowed to say when "again" might be approaching?

Because it isn't about genocide or anything like that in general. It is only about germany trying to exterminate jews. Other genocides get glossed over all the time. I mean what have they said about the Rohingya genocide?

 

[ponderingturtle]

So you pay attention to this crisis? Are there any threads? Have you contacted the news media or your legislators to complain?

It's easy to pay lip service, it's harder to make a convincing case.

Guardian: Amid focus on immigration from south, illegal crossings from Canada surge



But the most common way are VISA overstayers.
Latin Times: Canadian Immigrants Lead World In Illegal U.S. Visa Overstays, According To First-Ever DHS Estimates

When will the hundreds of thousands of European illegals start ending up in camps with their kids stripped from them?

 

[ponderingturtle]

There were three different types of camps.

Concentration Camps where not only Jews, but political opponents and union organizers, Catholic Priests who objected, Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, and other undesirables or persons accused of 'asocial' or socially 'deviant' behavior were held.

People were poorly treated and many did die due to deliberate maltreatment, disease, starvation, and overwork, and some being executed as "unfit for labour" and from 1941 to 1943 there were active euthanasia programs (14f13) in these camps to remove those considered to be unable to work for "health reasons," however this did include the "ailments" of being Jewish, handicapped, or having criminal or antisocial records

In 1943 two things happened

Factory Slave Camps were formed and those considered able to work for those were transported out of the Concentration Camps to those, where many were literally worked to death

Secondly the Extermination Camps were opened, and the death programs were stopped in the Concentration Camps, with those being regarded as needing to be eliminated, starting to be sent to those instead. That didn't mean that those left in the Concentrations Camps were treated any better, and nor does it mean that those suffering in them weren't dying due to malicious treatment, rather that they were no longer being killed at them as part of the extermination program. In fact a number of the camps were switched to using the populations for inhumane medical experiments instead of outright killing the occupants, which could be considered worse in some ways. many POWs, especially those from Communist Russia, were also send to these camps later in the War.

Nearly half of the Jews killed in the holocaust died in Concentration Camps rather than being sent to an Extermination Camp.

Something else to note. While the Jews were the largest group of those killed, collectively they were only about 35% of those exterminated with around 11 million non-Jews, primarily Soviet citizens and POWs, but also including Serbs, Poles, the disabled, Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, those deemed to be Criminals, Homosexuals, political opponents, and blacks, also being murdered in the camps.

I have to agree with the USHM that we shouldn't refer to the detention centers as "Concentration Camps," however, if we did want to go with a Historical reference from WW2, then perhaps "Internment Camp" might be a better one.

Hey when did we deny basic food and hygiene supplies from the internment camps? The mass crowding poor sanitation and poor food we see in these concentration camps are basic standard for concentration camps that cause mass death, be they german or british for the Boer.

This shows a poor grasp of history of such camps, as it was after all the british that coined the term for their Boer camps.

 

[Foolmewunz]

How am I doing that by pointing out that lack of diversity leads to failure?

Brainfart. I mis-read your post to get the absolute opposite of what you were saying.

A Duuuuuh moment.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

By that logic India and the Ussr would never have stagnated, Japan would not be a technological leader and the drc would not be mired in perpetual conflict.

You make no sense. I didn't make a logical argument, I was highlighting an observable correlation.

A robust economy benefits, but doesn't depend on, innovation. In fact, too much creative disruption can destabilize an already unbalanced economy.
The USSR was the top innovator in the world for years, and no.2 for long time after. But the emphasis wasn't on marketable products. So it didn't benefit its economy,


You should define "multiculturalism" first, I think: Russia has an enforced National Identity, similar to China, and there is an incentive to downplay ethnic identity.

Also, talking about multiculturalism in India is not useful, since the difficulties of transportation (and the stratified caste system) mean that the different groups don't really intermingle in the way, say, migrants to New York or San Francesco have.

Multiculturalism isn't the same as having X people from Y countries living within area Z.

 

[JoeMorgue]

NWO Sentryman lives in that all too common racist fever dream where if let "others" in they are going to... like literally not change at all. They won't acclimate, they won't change their opinions, their language, their dress, their... *pause for dramatic effect* food, nothing.

And not only will they not do it, they will not do it specifically to spite and harm us.

He honestly thinks there's some magical tipping point where if one more Mexican crosses the border that some "Thanos Snap" moment is gonna happen and all the steak and eggs in grocery stores will be replaced by tortillas, Christmas will be replaced by Cinco De Mayo, and CMT will start playing 24/7 Mariachi.

The idea "multiculturalism" isn't a bunch of culture coming together and never changing. It's a bunch of cultures coming together to make a new, better culture.

It's a melting pot, not a sampler tray.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

NWO Sentryman lives in that all too common racist fever dream where if let "others" in they are going to... like literally not change at all. They won't acclimate, they won't change their opinions, their language, their dress, their... *pause for dramatic effect* food, nothing.

And not only will they not do it, they will not do it specifically to spite and harm us.

He honestly thinks there's some magical tipping point where if one more Mexican crosses the border that some "Thanos Snap" moment is gonna happen and all the steak and eggs in grocery stores will be replaced by tortillas, Christmas will be replaced by Cinco De Mayo, and CMT will start playing 24/7 Mariachi.

The idea "multiculturalism" isn't a bunch of culture coming together and never changing. It's a bunch of cultures coming together to make a new, better culture.

It's a melting pot, not a sampler tray.

Seeing as how Europe went from "refugees welcome! United in Diversity!" to electing ultranationalists the moment things turned sour, I am going to have to (X)doubt on diversity making societies better. I mean, even despite being diverse the Caucasus is still a powder keg of conflict, and you had the tensions in Eastern Europe during the Run-up to WW1. As for the Mexico-US Border, a similar situation could easily happen, especially since the belief is that America stole their land, and that they are just reclaiming it, and reject the United States as a legitimate government. If you think "Taco Trucks on Every Corner" will lead to everybody pulling together as one the moment crisis hits...

 

[I Am The Scum]

Well I just learned something new.

If anyone in this thread thinks they are going to get NWO Sentryman to focus on the topic, I would encourage them to browse his most recent posts over the past few months. All of them (with the exception of a post regarding Game of Thrones) is the same type of off-topic liberal/multiculturalism complaint you find all over this thread. For example, you will see the Rohingya refugees brought up in a thread about Facebook. You will see a refugee crisis brought up in a thread about a knitting website.

It goes on and on. I think the mods should see this for the off-topic nonsense that it is. I'll be reporting any offending posts, while trying not to engage further. I encourage others to do the same.

 

[JoeMorgue]

When was the last time anyone defending Trump (even those "who totally aren't doing that, for realizies guys I totes mean it" doing it) made an actual point?

Even for discourse that's been 99% Whataboutism for years now it's been a minute since... you know a point got made.

 

[carlitos]

Well I just learned something new.

If anyone in this thread thinks they are going to get NWO Sentryman to focus on the topic, I would encourage them to browse his most recent posts over the past few months. All of them (with the exception of a post regarding Game of Thrones) is the same type of off-topic liberal/multiculturalism complaint you find all over this thread. For example, you will see the Rohingya refugees brought up in a thread about Facebook. You will see a refugee crisis brought up in a thread about a knitting website.

It goes on and on. I think the mods should see this for the off-topic nonsense that it is. I'll be reporting any offending posts, while trying not to engage further. I encourage others to do the same.

I'm concerned that there are a few ex 9/11 conspiracy debunker posters who have gone full white nationalist on this board. I wonder what progression that evolution in world view took, and how it got started. Or whether it was there all along maybe.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I'm concerned that there are a few ex 9/11 conspiracy debunker posters who have gone full white nationalist on this board. I wonder what progression that evolution in world view took, and how it got started. Or whether it was there all along maybe.

"Live with a man 40 years. Share his house, his meals. Speak on every subject. Then tie him up, and hold him over the volcano's edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man." -Shepherd Book, quoting 'Shan Yu' (entirely fictional)

NWO's statements about how 'people' act in tough times is just projection, attempting to rationalize his own perspective.

 

[theprestige]

Pointing at other places is not an answer to what should be done in the USA. Pretending otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Which is my main objection to calling them concentration camps. If you* can't call them detention centers and still make the same arguments, then maybe you're the one being intellectually dishonest.

---
*Rhetorical you, not personal you.

 

[bruto]

There's a certain gloomy truth to the assertion that diversity does not work, because people who hate diversity will make sure of it, just as integration does not work if racists shoot you for it. In the value free society we solve problems by avoiding them. If you don't want to be raped on the bus, stay off the bus. The solution to xenophobia is a wall. It saves us from having to burn the bodies later. Welcome to needle park.