Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

[ponderingturtle]

There's another good chronological touchstone. In which years would "technically the Jews can still leave Germany" have been an excuse?

Up to the start of WWII. Se the voyage of the St Louis, the problem was getting anyone to take them and not just send them back.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/voyage-of-the-st-louis

America sent a clear message to hitler, "solve your own jewish problem, we won't take them"

 

[Upchurch]

Up to the start of WWII. Se the voyage of the St Louis, the problem was getting anyone to take them and not just send them back.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/voyage-of-the-st-louis

Thanks for the link. I did not know about this part of the story.

 

[William Parcher]

US Holocaust Museum rejects Democrats making concentration camp comparisons

The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum issued a statement on Monday that criticized Democrats' recent comparisons of migrant detention centers to concentration camps used during World War II.

"The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum unequivocally rejects efforts to create analogies between the Holocaust and other events, whether historical or contemporary. That position has repeatedly and unambiguously been made clear in the Museum’s official statement on the matter – a statement that is reiterated and reaffirmed now," the museum said.

"The Museum further reiterates that a statement ascribed to a Museum staff historian regarding recent attempts to analogize the situation on the United States southern border to concentration camps in Europe during the 1930s and 1940s does not reflect the position of the Museum," their statement continued...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...mocrats-making-concentration-camp-comparisons

 

[carlitos]

The US Holocaust Museum is dead wrong in this case. How on earth are you going to have a "never again" if you're not allowed to say when "again" might be approaching?

 

[JoeMorgue]

I respect what the USHM is trying to say and why they are taking the stance that they are.

But nobody owns words and terms and can't declare them off limits because you feel it will cheapen your own use of it.

 

[theprestige]

I respect what the USHM is trying to say and why they are taking the stance that they are.

But nobody owns words and terms and can't declare them off limits because you feel it will cheapen your own use of it.

If you are going to call any kind of detention center a concentration camp, then you probably need to come up with a different term for Auschwitz et al. Otherwise you're going to confuse a lot of people, and give the impression there's a problem where none exists.

Even then, it's probably still going to cause a lot of confusion. Colloquial language doesn't change overnight, and forcing it rarely works.

If the goal is clear communication and civil debate about immigration policy, then the thread should probably be titled, "Trump proposes new detention centers for immigration" or something like that.

 

[plague311]

If you are going to call any kind of detention center a concentration camp, then you probably need to come up with a different term for Auschwitz et al. Otherwise you're going to confuse a lot of people, and give the impression there's a problem where none exists.

Even then, it's probably still going to cause a lot of confusion. Colloquial language doesn't change overnight, and forcing it rarely works.

If the goal is clear communication and civil debate about immigration policy, then the thread should probably be titled, "Trump proposes new detention centers for immigration" or something like that.

LoL

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

yes, because of the large number of heavily armed right-right militias.

not because of separatists seeking to join Mexico.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't need one, since I know what my reaction to hundreds of thousands of Canadians storming the Montana border would be and it wouldn't be any different from my reaction to hundreds of thousands of Central Americans doing the same in the southwest.

So you pay attention to this crisis? Are there any threads? Have you contacted the news media or your legislators to complain?

It's easy to pay lip service, it's harder to make a convincing case.

Guardian: Amid focus on immigration from south, illegal crossings from Canada surge

Hotspot along 30-mile section of Vermont-Quebec frontier
US authorities concerned about porous northern border

But the most common way are VISA overstayers.
Latin Times: Canadian Immigrants Lead World In Illegal U.S. Visa Overstays, According To First-Ever DHS Estimates

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Children are free to leave whenever the parents want.

Most children are not free to do whatever they want.

This is patently false.

Many of the children have phone numbers of their parents or other family members. They haven't been allowed to call, many of the parents don't know where their kids are.

Snopes: The Department of Health and Human Services announced that 10,773 unaccompanied immigrant children were indeed in detention facilities as of May 2018.

The agreement [A Trump directed memorandum] signed last month gives Homeland Security access to more information about potential sponsors and children’s relatives — including their immigration status. That change will keep more kids in federal custody, immigrant advocates say, if their relatives are too scared to step forward or view a sponsorship decision as a choice between retrieving a child and risking their own deportation. In many cases, sponsors are aunts and uncles who may not have a close relationship to a child in custody and may be hesitant to jeopardize the immigration status of their own families, attorneys and advocates say.

The kids are being held hostage. Trump is happy with that.

 

[Belz...]

I don't need one, since I know what my reaction to hundreds of thousands of Canadians storming the Montana border would be and it wouldn't be any different from my reaction to hundreds of thousands of Central Americans doing the same in the southwest.

Sorry, I don't accept a hypothetical as evidence of an actuality. You say you would react a certain way, but we have no evidence of this.

 

[Belz...]

Children are free to leave whenever the parents want.

Well, the parents have to find the children first, don't they? You are aware of this situation, correct?

 

[Belz...]

If you are going to call any kind of detention center a concentration camp, then you probably need to come up with a different term for Auschwitz et al.

Here's one: extermination camps.

 

[theprestige]

LoL : rolleyes :

Maybe it's funny to you, but I actually think it's pretty serious.

 

[dudalb]

All of them. The Germans started the Holocaust largely because they couldn't find any country to ship the Jews off to.

Heydrich said as much in his opening statements at the Wannasee conference, which was sort of a meeting of mid level management to figure out the administrative details of The Final Solution.

 

[dudalb]

Sorry, I don't accept a hypothetical as evidence of an actuality. You say you would react a certain way, but we have no evidence of this.

I just plain don't believe a Trump supporter when he says he would view White European refugees the same way he would refuges from Central America. It's all about them having brown skins.

 

[theprestige]

I just plain don't believe a Trump supporter when he says he would view White European refugees the same way he would refuges from Central America. It's all about them having brown skins.

And this is why I make so little effort to try to have a good faith political debate here.

Not because of how some vague, notional progressive approaches the debate, but because of how you and others here approach the debate.

I give you a sincere, good faith argument, and I get this crap in return. Why, dudalb? What have I ever done to you, to merit this kind of treatment?

 

[I Am The Scum]

Otherwise you're going to confuse a lot of people, and give the impression there's a problem where none exists.

If you don't think that there's a problem with children being locked up and held in inhumane conditions, then you're the one who is confused.

If the goal is clear communication and civil debate about immigration policy, then the thread should probably be titled, "Trump proposes new detention centers for immigration" or something like that.

If you think that the possibility of civil debate is on the table for Trump supporters on this topic, then yes, you are very confused.

 

[theprestige]

If you don't think that there's a problem with children being locked up and held in inhumane conditions, then you're the one who is confused.

If you think that the possibility of civil debate is on the table for Trump supporters on this topic, then yes, you are very confused.

I'm a Trump supporter. I'm having a civil debate. Where's the confusion?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

The US Holocaust Museum is dead wrong in this case. How on earth are you going to have a "never again" if you're not allowed to say when "again" might be approaching?

Ask the Rohingya in Myanmar about that. Or the Bosniaks. Or the Timorese. Because "Never Again" was a broken promise from the get-go.