Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

JoeMorgue said:
I still don't, get even if we just hit the "Change Reality" button and pretend all the whataboutism is actually true, what differences it makes.
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Well, that is part of the problem. No discussion can be had without some common ground which we all agree is true. There is a reality being creatively redesigned here that doesn't match current facts or history. If we cannot agree on a common ground, we'll be endlessly using the same words with different meanings.

That is why evidence is King.
 
Upchurch said:
Well, that is part of the problem. No discussion can be had without some common ground which we all agree is true. There is a reality being creatively redesigned here that doesn't match current facts or history. If we cannot agree on a common ground, we'll be endlessly using the same words with different meanings.
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Well sorry but that's where we are at, a post-truth world. If you've got a way to get out of it let me know because I don't.

We've let ourselves get "Well technically..."ed into a world where nothing is true enough to "count." Everything is comparative, everything is only true in comparison to some other version of itself.

Right now half of this thread is arguing that evil doesn't exist until we define the exact kind of evil it is.

It's like if someone is beating you to death with a hammer trying to defend yourself by arguing with the person beating you whether the dictionary defines the thing smashing your skull in as a hammer or a mallet.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Ok but these so-called concentration camps are not extermination camps. They are in place to protect Americans from the child traffickers, murderers, and other criminals flooding our borders. I can't think of anything else that can be done to protect us.
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How many 4 year olds are child traffickers?

And again that is a fairly foolish argument because the people in these camps are less likely to be criminals than american citizens. It isn't like there is any effort made to find the serious criminals and separate them fleeing gang violence. After all we are happy to deport those who stand up to the drug cartels so they can kill them, so it is pretty hard to make any claim that this is about crime, other than the very minor crime of crossing the border.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Well sorry but that's where we are at, a post-truth world. If you've got a way to get out of it let me know because I don't.
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You're preaching to the choir, on this point. Conservatives, having wedded themselves to evangelicals, have spent the last 30 some years constructing an alternate realty where Intelligent Design is a science and Climatology isn't.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Stop lying.
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If you examine Cainkane 1's posting history I do not feel that he is lying per se. He often posts extreme positions, but also is known to post much more reasonable ones at other times (IIRC). Under the rules of the MA I cannot speculate on his motivations, but I have observed posters in other Forums who do so to discredit certain positions by exaggerating them into absurdities.

So take your choice: he believes the extreme positions he posts, he posts them just to stir up trouble, or he posts them to discredit those who have analogous views. I have my own opinion I cannot share here without running afoul of the MA, so I make no claims myself. But I tend to not get very bent out of shape by what he does post.
 
"Liberals always lie".

And they also always project their lying onto others (characteristic of most liars).
 
ponderingturtle said:
How many 4 year olds are child traffickers?

And again that is a fairly foolish argument because the people in these camps are less likely to be criminals than american citizens. It isn't like there is any effort made to find the serious criminals and separate them fleeing gang violence. After all we are happy to deport those who stand up to the drug cartels so they can kill them, so it is pretty hard to make any claim that this is about crime, other than the very minor crime of crossing the border.
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Well, are you saying that there are no illegals who are child traffickers? Seeing a toddler holding the hand of an unrelated adult is a good bit of evidence that there are indeed child traffickers who are crossing our borders with the intent of selling these kids to perverts.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Explain in detail how I'm lying? What I say is the cold hard truth. It may not be popular among some people but what I say is true.
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No, it's not. By that, I mean it's not either of those things. It's unpopular because it's a blatant lie, ignorant of reality. It's a lie because what you say is not true at all. It's a racist view born out of, what I assume is, fear of immigrants TAKIN' YER JERB!!!!!
 
Cainkane1 said:
Well, are you saying that there are no illegals who are child traffickers? Seeing a toddler holding the hand of an unrelated adult is a good bit of evidence that there are indeed child traffickers who are crossing our borders with the intent of selling these kids to perverts.
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False dichotomy.

I don't understand why you're failing to understand this so badly, but coming to a country and requesting asylum is not illegal. Stop using the word. It's making you look foolish.
 
Is a prison considered a concentration camp? You break the law like the illegals are doing and you get put in a detention area.

You break the law and you will be surrounded by walls. It's that simple. Stay out of America and avoid these camps.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"BTW it's taken 2 years, 149 days, to go from 'Trump won't round people up' to 'These can't be concentration camps because they aren't as bad as Auschwitz.'" - Dusty Wilson
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Trump still isn't rounding people up. You can't really round up people who are already traveling to gather in front of you. It'd be redundant.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Is a prison considered a concentration camp? You break the law like the illegals are doing and you get put in a detention area.

You break the law and you will be surrounded by walls. It's that simple. Stay out of America and avoid these camps.
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that is such an old trope...

some are not given the chance not to commit a misdemeanor, because they have to come into the US to have a chance to be allowed to stay.

Until Trump, we had moved beyond this form of entrapment.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Explain in detail how I'm lying? What I say is the cold hard truth. It may not be popular among some people but what I say is true.
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Okay:
  • America does have concentration camps in the true sense of the word. We're even re-using the concentration camps we used for Japanese Americans in the 1940s, when they were used for 4 years. Not particularly temporary.
  • The vast majority of the refugees in them did not break any law at all. They are refugees, not criminals.
  • There is little-to-no evidence that these refugees brought crime into the country or that any disease they might have is particularly contagious or uncontrollable.
  • The "they took our jobs!" is laughably naive to the point that even South Park lampooned it 15 years ago. Do you think you are owed a job because you are an American citizen? If so, you should take a close look at the Democratic Presidential candidates. There just might be one for you.

The thing about China an opinion that isn't actually testable or provable.

None of what you said is actually true in a real world sense.
 
uke2se said:
Not really an Obama admin lawyer tho.
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From the article: "Fabian is a holdover from the Obama administration. It is not clear exactly when she joined the Department of Justice, but she was listed in a 2015 case as being senior litigation counsel in the civil division of the Office of Immigration Litigation in Attorney General Eric Holder’s DOJ."
 
Cainkane1 said:
Is a prison considered a concentration camp? You break the law like the illegals are doing and you get put in a detention area.
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No, prison is where you go after being convicted and sentenced at a public trial. Even then, you still have rights of petition and redress, access to appeals, etc.

If they've broken laws and we intend to prosecute them, they must have all the rights of the accused.

This is not the case for the detained, they are "awaiting a hearing." Both the length and conditions of detention are an egregious violation of civil rights on their own, put together they are causing and will continue to cause chronic and long-lasting impacts on physiological, psychological, and behavioral development of tens of thousands of people.

You break the law and you will be surrounded by walls. It's that simple. Stay out of America and avoid these camps.
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Well at least in your own sick, twisted way you can admit these camps are punitive.
 
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