Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[IanS]

That looks like a more realistic UKIP number now anyway!

Really can't see Green getting that many seats but we shall see soon enough.

I just came back from the polling station. Only had a Lib Dem guy outside and he made no effort to swing my vote so Greens got it.

I voted this morning (Lib Dem; i.e. tactical, because that seems to be the most direct vote against Brexit). But I actually had a problem - when I presented my Polling Card they said "oh you can't vote with that because on our list it says you've also been sent a postal/proxy voting form" ... to which I replied "yes I know, and I've actually brought that with me in case you asked me for any of it, but I don't know why I was sent any of that stuff because I've never in my life asked for any postal vote or any proxy vote" ... in the end I had to fill out the postal voting form and give it to a woman at the polling station who told me it would actually be valid and in time for counting ... but will it? I have no idea! Probably it will be counted, but it's just an unnecessary mess that adds an element of doubt and confusion.

Meanwhile on the BBC news this evening there's a growing row from many EU Nationals who are living and working in the UK and who have the right to vote in these elections, but who have been turned away from polling stations after a mix-up concerning something called a UC1 form that had to be completed and sent to, delivered to, or processed by the local council by 3rd May -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48384000

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I voted this morning (Lib Dem; i.e. tactical, because that seems to be the most direct vote against Brexit). But I actually had a problem - when I presented my Polling Card they said "oh you can't vote with that because on our list it says you've also been sent a postal/proxy voting form" ... to which I replied "yes I know, and I've actually brought that with me in case you asked me for any of it, but I don't know why I was sent any of that stuff because I've never in my life asked for any postal vote or any proxy vote" ... in the end I had to fill out the postal voting form and give it to a woman at the polling station who told me it would actually be valid and in time for counting ... but will it? I have no idea! Probably it will be counted, but it's just an unnecessary mess that adds an element of doubt and confusion.

Meanwhile on the BBC news this evening there's a growing row from many EU Nationals who are living and working in the UK and who have the right to vote in these elections, but who have been turned away from polling stations after a mix-up concerning something called a UC1 form that had to be completed and sent to, delivered to, or processed by the local council by 3rd May -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48384000

An SNP MP tweeted today that she was handing in her postal vote at the polling station and reminding others they can do it, so you should be fine.

The EU thing is a bit more worrying but could just be down to it all being a bit rushed and disorganised.

Actually, earlier this evening I went to the toilet, sat down, did what I wanted to do, then looked around and realised there was no paper, nobody was around to help me, and I was going to have to make a undignified, likely embarrassing and potentially messy journey to rectify the situation. Of course it could all have been solved if I had taken a moment to think before I emptied my bowels.

And if that isn't a metaphor for Brexit, then what is!

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Sam Harris thinks hitting people with a milkshake is a 'mock assassination'. Sam Harris has lost the plot.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Actually, earlier this evening I went to the toilet, sat down, did what I wanted to do, then looked around and realised there was no paper, nobody was around to help me, and I was going to have to make a undignified, likely embarrassing and potentially messy journey to rectify the situation. Of course it could all have been solved if I had taken a moment to think before I emptied my bowels.

And if that isn't a metaphor for Brexit, then what is!

Maybe we should tell Theresa May about the cardboard tube exit plan.

 

[Trebuchet]

Christ, we're ******.



The unscrupulous have conned the credulous and it's going to be a disaster.



I can't see any way that this ends well.





I am genuinely terrified for the future of my country.

At least you don't have Donald Trump "leading" it.

 

[McHrozni]

I voted this morning (Lib Dem; i.e. tactical, because that seems to be the most direct vote against Brexit). But I actually had a problem - when I presented my Polling Card they said "oh you can't vote with that because on our list it says you've also been sent a postal/proxy voting form" ... to which I replied "yes I know, and I've actually brought that with me in case you asked me for any of it, but I don't know why I was sent any of that stuff because I've never in my life asked for any postal vote or any proxy vote" ... in the end I had to fill out the postal voting form and give it to a woman at the polling station who told me it would actually be valid and in time for counting ... but will it? I have no idea! Probably it will be counted, but it's just an unnecessary mess that adds an element of doubt and confusion.

Meanwhile on the BBC news this evening there's a growing row from many EU Nationals who are living and working in the UK and who have the right to vote in these elections, but who have been turned away from polling stations after a mix-up concerning something called a UC1 form that had to be completed and sent to, delivered to, or processed by the local council by 3rd May -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48384000

There are also stories about postal votes to British nationals in the EU not arriving on time.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20190522/br...ote-in-european-elections-over-voting-mishaps

It's not entirely surprising, the electoral comission was working on a tight schedule for a complex election they didn't prepare or budget for. Still, the response of EU is poignant: there is a significant democratic deficit in the UK.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

At least you don't have Donald Trump "leading" it.

We could soon have Boris Johnson,or Rees-Mogg as Prime Minister so don't speak too soon.

 

[The Don]

There are also stories about postal votes to British nationals in the EU not arriving on time.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20190522/br...ote-in-european-elections-over-voting-mishaps

It's not entirely surprising, the electoral comission was working on a tight schedule for a complex election they didn't prepare or budget for. Still, the response of EU is poignant: there is a significant democratic deficit in the UK.

McHrozni

Yes, I can see where the EU is coming from.

For a start, it's a bit rich for the UK to complain about a democratic deficit in the EU when we have:

• A first past the post system where all but the two leading parties in any given country/region are under-represented
• A head of state who is there because of birth
• An upper house who have either been appointed by successive governments or who have been born into the job - but either way it's a lifetime role
• A Conservative government who have handed over the country's leadership to a bunch of right-wing religious extremists

...and now we have significant failures in the European elections, caused largely by the haste in which they were called, and the government is abdicating any responsibility and instead blaming local authorities

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I am seeing that the issue was raised in parliament some time ago and largely handwaved away by the government so i am less inclined to accept lack of time as an excuse for people being denied the vote. Lack of concern seems closer to the truth. Coupled with self interest no.doubt.

 

[Tolls]

At least half the government don't view them as "real" elections anyway.

They're not for a proper parliament after all, not like Westminster.

 

[KDLarsen]

I am seeing that the issue was raised in parliament some time ago and largely handwaved away by the government so i am less inclined to accept lack of time as an excuse for people being denied the vote. Lack of concern seems closer to the truth. Coupled with self interest no.doubt.

It was even raised during PMQ's on Wednesday, with May delivering the helpful non-sequitur response that if her deal had been passed, people wouldn't have to vote in the first place.

 

[McHrozni]

I am seeing that the issue was raised in parliament some time ago and largely handwaved away by the government so i am less inclined to accept lack of time as an excuse for people being denied the vote. Lack of concern seems closer to the truth. Coupled with self interest no.doubt.

True. Both major parties have a vested interest in as few EU nationals voting as possible, so they can declare the EU election was a sort of second referendun on Brexit, which won again. Of course between EU nationals being denied the right to vote and British nationals in EU not recieving their ballots in time, the election has no legitimacy to begin with. Especially not as a referendum on Brexit.

McHrozni

 

[IanS]

There are also stories about postal votes to British nationals in the EU not arriving on time.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20190522/br...ote-in-european-elections-over-voting-mishaps

It's not entirely surprising, the electoral comission was working on a tight schedule for a complex election they didn't prepare or budget for. Still, the response of EU is poignant: there is a significant democratic deficit in the UK.

McHrozni

Well this election is not of course a new referendum on Brexit, and it's not a new General Election, so on the face of things the outcome is relatively far less important (or at least, in the past afaik many UK voters have not bothered at all with EU elections). But still, I think that the very strong reaction that everyone (public and MP's) has had to result of the Brexit referendum, does mean that even in these EU elections voters are unusually keen to register their vote and to ensure that their votes are actually counted.

Announcement from Mrs May right now this morning as I write this – she will resign as PM on 7th June.

 

[KDLarsen]

May has announced she will resign on June 7th, with the Tory leadership contest to begin the following week.

I liked her remark about trying "...to make the UK a country that works for the many, not the few.." That's a popular Labour slogan these days.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

May has announced she will resign on June 7th, with the Tory leadership contest to begin the following week.

I liked her remark about trying "...to make the UK a country that works for the many, not the few.." That's a popular Labour slogan these days.

Oh great another bunch of time lost to internal Tory party shenanigans.

And there really should be a GE following the appointment of the new leader, but of course there won't be because they know they would lose seats.

 

[McHrozni]

Well this election is not of course a new referendum on Brexit, and it's not a new General Election, so on the face of things the outcome is relatively far less important (or at least, in the past afaik many UK voters have not bothered at all with EU elections). But still, I think that the very strong reaction that everyone (public and MP's) has had to result of the Brexit referendum, does mean that even in these EU elections voters are unusually keen to register their vote and to ensure that their votes are actually counted.

Announcement from Mrs May right now this morning as I write this – she will resign as PM on 7th June.

The outcome of EU elections is vital. Tory Brexit competition (perhaps in a Jeux Sans Frontières format) will take place just after the said election. The elections will offer a glimpse into what the electorate thinks on Brexit. The verdict it does not like the Tory approach is a given, Labour will suffer too - but so will the performance of UKIP/Brexit vs LibDem/SNP/Cymru/ChangeUK. If UKIP/Brexit underperform badly, then BJ Baboon or whomever wins the pissing contest will have their hands tied, the electorate will have (had?) spoken and a new referendum may be inevitable. If those two parties win big a No Deal Brexit is far more likely.

There is another, likely option: a new General Election. This isn't too unlikely, seeing as the Conservatives don't actually have a majority or a viable route to a majority. Another alliance with DUP has all sorts of problems attached to it and it only takes about five defectors from the Conservatives to basically force a new General Election. Maybe someone can use a milkshake on Corbyn, but substitute the mikshake with concentrated hydrofluoric acid or my favorite pesticide, chlorine (III) fluoride. That should give us all a new referendum and the whole thing will be in the embarassing past by the end of the year.

McHrozni

 

[Mr Fied]

Here we go, tories on BBC news, "it's the EU's fault, they wouldn't agree to a deal that we wanted". FFS, how far up their own backsides are these people?

 

[The Don]

The outcome of EU elections is vital. Tory Brexit competition (perhaps in a Jeux Sans Frontières format) will take place just after the said election. The elections will offer a glimpse into what the electorate thinks on Brexit. The verdict it does not like the Tory approach is a given, Labour will suffer too - but so will the performance of UKIP/Brexit vs LibDem/SNP/Cymru/ChangeUK. If UKIP/Brexit underperform badly, then BJ Baboon or whomever wins the pissing contest will have their hands tied, the electorate will have (had?) spoken and a new referendum may be inevitable. If those two parties win big a No Deal Brexit is far more likely.

Given that the majority of the Conservative party members are in favour of a no-deal Brexit then IMO the next leader of the party will try and force through a no-deal Brexit. It's likely that they will actively do this rather than just sitting on their hands and letting it happen by default.

There is another, likely option: a new General Election. This isn't too unlikely, seeing as the Conservatives don't actually have a majority or a viable route to a majority. Another alliance with DUP has all sorts of problems attached to it and it only takes about five defectors from the Conservatives to basically force a new General Election. Maybe someone can use a milkshake on Corbyn, but substitute the mikshake with concentrated hydrofluoric acid or my favorite pesticide, chlorine (III) fluoride. That should give us all a new referendum and the whole thing will be in the embarassing past by the end of the year.

McHrozni

The fact that it's unlikely that the Conservatives would do well in a general election means it's unlikely that they will call one early. Better to limp along with a wafer thin majority and a supply and confidence arrangement with the DUP than be out of power altogether.

As you suggest, their hand could be forced by a no-confidence vote triggered by Labour, but that would be a bold call and could easily result in Tory rebels "unrebelling" and supporting the government in the no-confidence vote.

 

[McHrozni]

Here we go, tories on BBC news, "it's the EU's fault, they wouldn't agree to a deal that we wanted". FFS, how far up their own backsides are these people?

Enough to have come out the other side, I think.

Ew.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Here we go, tories on BBC news, "it's the EU's fault, they wouldn't agree to a deal that we wanted". FFS, how far up their own backsides are these people?

It's difficult for me to tell whether they actually believe this to be true or whether it's just the party line that they're spouting and they know that it's rubbish. I used to think that they were smart and devious and it was the latter. I now think they're stupid and it's the former.

It's the same negotiating tactic that President Trump adopts, ask for a unilateral deal and throw your toys out of the pram and blame the other party when you don't get exactly what you want.