Trans Women are not Women

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theprestige said:
About nine months prior, this "rightly classified" "man" was operating as a fully-functional woman, biologically and socially.
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I have to admit this having a dollar each way, as many trans are wont to do, tends to make a mockery out of the debate.

If it's not a choice, why are trans people picking and choosing as though their gender was a coat to be worn when you feel like it?
 
Crawtator said:
You don't see that the entire problem was that, although he did declare he was transgendered, they identified him on the records as male. And that this characterization led to, and I quote:

“But that classification threw us off from considering his actual medical needs.”
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No, I don't see that at all.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
No, I don't see that at all.
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If he tells the admitting nurse that he's transgender, but the admitting nurse only writes down "male" on the paperwork, then other people making decisions about his healthcare might not know that he's actually female. That's a problem.
 
Rolfe said:
This. The debate is often framed as if the trans people's feelings are the only ones that matter. Women's feelings are of so little account that the debate swiftly moves on to matters of safety. Of course safety is important, but it's telling that, if the debate remained on the topic of personal feelings, the feelings of the trans-identifying men (because that's who we're talking about here) are commonly regarded to trump everything.

The poor oppressed marginalised (six-foot, muscular, bepenised) flowers must have their lady feelz validated, and who cares about the women whose private spaces are being opened to any man who cares to enter? (While at the same time we're continuing to campaign for proper segragated facilities for girls in third world countries so they can attend school. Won't somebody think of the poor excluded trans-girls in Somalia and Ethiopia?)
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Do you have similar opinions about mens private bathroom space, regarding trans men?
It's a bit sexist to only focus on the women side of the equation, hence my question.
 
p0lka said:
Do you have similar opinions about mens private bathroom space, regarding trans men?
It's a bit sexist to only focus on the women side of the equation, hence my question.
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As a dude, I'm totally okay with ladies being focused on lady problems. To me it kinda seems like a dick move to say "but think of the men!" to women who are trying to deal with the problems women face in today's society.

Far be it from me to insist that feminists aren't taking men enough into account.
 
Rank the following statements in order of stupidity.

1. Gifted people can bend spoons using mental energy.
2. Men can give birth.
 
p0lka said:
Do you have similar opinions about mens private bathroom space, regarding trans men?
It's a bit sexist to only focus on the women side of the equation, hence my question.
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Nobody cares about the feelings of the trans-identifying women. Goodness I wonder why that might be. It's always the guys with the lady feelz who are front and centre when someone has to budge up and make room for them because validation you know.
 
theprestige said:
To me it kinda seems like a dick move to say "but think of the men!" to women who are trying to deal with the problems women face in today's society.
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Which of the problems discussed thus far are uniquely women's problems? Aside from testosterone as a performance enhancing drug having an impact on women's sport, pretty much everything has an analog on both sides of the sex divide.
 
Rolfe said:
Nobody cares about the feelings of the trans-identifying women. Goodness I wonder why that might be. It's always the guys with the lady feelz who are front and centre when someone has to budge up and make room for them because validation you know.
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Because you notice them. Because you've created them. Meanwhile, a thousand people whose gender doesn't match their genitals quietly pass you by, unnoticed and glad of it.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
No, because getting a GRC is not the be all and end all. It doesn't 'do away with' transpeople getting medical help or talking to doctors or counsellors at all.

A GRC is a specific thing for a specific purpose.
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Sure, perhaps I misunderstood Rolfe's point. The point seemed to be not that medical help wouldn't be available, but rather that it's not a requirement.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Because you notice them. Because you've created them. Meanwhile, a thousand people whose gender doesn't match their genitals quietly pass you by, unnoticed and glad of it.
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I agree with your point but your presentation list the arguement. Replace trans with shoplifters and you have the same point.
 
Ziggurat said:
If he tells the admitting nurse that he's transgender, but the admitting nurse only writes down "male" on the paperwork, then other people making decisions about his healthcare might not know that he's actually female. That's a problem.
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Possibly. So they should communicate effectively that the person is transgender and deal with it appropriately. It's not like they didn't know in this case.

That's different from having an official document saying 'was born a male/female' on record somewhere which was the proposed solution and I doubt would have helped in the slightest.
 
Meadmaker said:
Rank the following statements in order of stupidity.

1. Gifted people can bend spoons using mental energy.
2. Men can give birth.
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Think you have got them in the right order. We are already discussing a pregnant man in the topic that you appear to be struggling to follow.

By the way, good work on more reasoned debate here. This post was highly contentful, intellectually stimulating, thought-provoking and not in the least bit just a snidey bit of ****-throwing at transpeople.
 
Roboramma said:
Sure, perhaps I misunderstood Rolfe's point. The point seemed to be not that medical help wouldn't be available, but rather that it's not a requirement.
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No, her point was that it wouldn't happen. To be honest her point, as always on this topic, is simply to throw enough **** at transpeople that hopefully some of it will stick. Diagnosis is just her latest red herring because even if they get a diagnosis she still doesn't accept that they are anything other than perverts pretending to be women for their own kicks or otherwise mentally ill.
 
sadhatter said:
If I demand my blood type be put down as a when it is o, do you not think it may cause issues?
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I would expect a competent medical professional to be able to cope with a wrongly reported blood type. I don't even know what my blood type is, I wouldn't imagine for a second they would give me blood without checking.

Not that this analogy has anything to do with the case in question because he told them he was trans and he told them he had a positive pregnancy test.

If hospitals can't cope with trans people and it causes trans people real harm then, and work with me on this one because I know you are capable of reasoned thought.... THAT'S NOT THE TRANSPEOPLE WHO ARE TO BLAME, THAT'S THE HOSPITAL'S FAULT!!!
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Think you have got them in the right order. We are already discussing a pregnant man in the topic that you appear to be struggling to follow.

By the way, good work on more reasoned debate here. This post was highly contentful, intellectually stimulating, thought-provoking and not in the least bit just a snidey bit of ****-throwing at transpeople.
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I decided to give up some of the pseudointellectual crap.

That person in the article is a woman.

Her baby is dead.
 
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