Mueller Investigation pt 6

Status
Not open for further replies.
dasmiller said:
I am unconvinced that the Trump Campaign operated completely independently of The Trump.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, you'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump knew what was going on, understood it, and took an active part in directing it.

Collusion of the Gaps proceeds apace. We don't see Trump managing stuff that way, but we believe in Collusion, so we have faith that he's doing it while we're not looking.
 
Upchurch said:
Apologies if this has already been posted, but Audible released a free audio book of the report: https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Mueller-Report-Audiobook/B07PXN468K
Click to expand...

That's pretty cool.

This audio recording identifies the sections of The Mueller Report that have been redacted by the Office of the Attorney General. When the narrators reach a section of the report that has been redacted, they will give one of the four reasons for a redaction that is specified in the report. Those reasons are the following: Grand Jury, Harm to Ongoing Matter, Investigative Technique, Personal Privacy. To aid the listener’s comprehension of the report, we have recorded footnotes that contain secondary pieces of information, which provide additional context to the events described. Finally, references to US Code, federal regulations, court cases and other legal and technical documents have been adjusted for brevity and listener clarity. We are providing a downloadable PDF for a full and complete reference. This file can be accessed in your Library section along with the audio.​

Makes sense. It sounds like they did a pretty good job. Do you happen to know how good the readers are, with this particular text?
 
theprestige said:
On the other hand, you'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump knew what was going on, understood it, and took an active part in directing it.

Collusion of the Gaps proceeds apace. We don't see Trump managing stuff that way, but we believe in Collusion, so we have faith that he's doing it while we're not looking.
Click to expand...
Trump wrote Jr's excuse for the Tower meeting. You'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump didn't understand what was going on there.

He was warned by Yates not to hire Flynn. Kind of hard to explain why he ignored that warning until it became public and Trump was pressured to fire Flynn.

Trump lied about working on a deal for a Trump Tower Moscow for many months. Are you claiming he didn't know what was going on?

So many people are falling for the narrative, Trump was insulated. No he wasn't. But apparently a lot of people are happy to believe that falsehood.
 
theprestige said:
Makes sense. It sounds like they did a pretty good job. Do you happen to know how good the readers are, with this particular text?
Click to expand...

I mean, they're reading legalese. There is only so much you can do with it, but they haven't droned me to sleep yet, if that's what you're asking. I'm not very far into the audio version yet. I made it maybe a quarter of the way through the PDF version.

eta: I just hit a heavily redacted part. They make it clear enough.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Trump wrote Jr's excuse lie for the Tower meeting. You'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump didn't understand what was going on there.

He was warned by Yates and by Obama not to hire FlynnKind of hard to explain why he ignored that warning until it became public and Trump was pressured to fire Flynn.

Trump lied about working on a deal for a Trump Tower Moscow for many months. Are you claiming he didn't know what was going on?

So many people are falling for the narrative, Trump was insulated. No he wasn't. But apparently a lot of people are happy to believe that falsehood.
Click to expand...

FTFY
 
Last edited:
theprestige said:
On the other hand, you'll probably have a bitch of a time demonstrating that Trump knew what was going on, understood it, and took an active part in directing it.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Mueller was unable to prove it.

Collusion of the Gaps proceeds apace. We don't see Trump managing stuff that way, but we believe in Collusion, so we have faith that he's doing it while we're not looking.
Click to expand...

We suspect it to be true because it makes much more sense than the alternative. But at this point, I don't think anything "proceeds."
 
Excellent op ed in The Atlantic from a Republican who served on Trump's transition team but now supports his impeachment:

I wanted to share my experience transitioning from Trump team member to pragmatist about Trump to advocate for his impeachment, because I think many other Republicans are starting a similar transition. Politics is a team sport, and if you actively work within a political party, there is some expectation that you will follow orders and rally behind the leader, even when you disagree. There is a point, though, at which that expectation turns from a mix of loyalty and pragmatism into something more sinister, a blind devotion that serves to enable criminal conduct.
The Mueller report was that tipping point for me, and it should be for Republican and independent voters, and for Republicans in Congress. In the face of a Department of Justice policy that prohibited him from indicting a sitting president, Mueller drafted what any reasonable reader would see as a referral to Congress to commence impeachment hearings.
Depending on how you count, roughly a dozen separate instances of obstruction of justice are contained in the Mueller report. The president dangled pardons in front of witnesses to encourage them to lie to the special counsel, and directly ordered people to lie to throw the special counsel off the scent.

The Founders knew that impeachment would be, in part, a political exercise. They decided that the legislative branch would operate as the best check on the president by channeling the people’s will. Congress has an opportunity to shape that public sentiment with the hearings ahead. As sentiments shift, more and more Republicans in Congress will feel emboldened to stand up to the president. The nation has been through this drama before, with more than a year of hearings in the Richard Nixon scandal, which ultimately forced his resignation.
Republicans who stand up to Trump today may face some friendly fire. Today’s Republican electorate seems spellbound by the sound bites of Twitter and cable news, for which Trump is a born wizard. Yet, in time, we can help rebuild the Republican Party, enabling it to rise from the ashes of the post-Trump apocalypse into a party with renewed commitment to principles of liberty, opportunity, and the rule of law.
Click to expand...
The Mueller Report Was My Tipping Point
J. W. Verret - The Atlantic - Tuesday, April 23, 2019
 
Prominent Republicans other than Mitt Romney who are troubled by what the Mueller Report reveals about Donald Trump include former Ohio governor John Kasich:
The former Ohio governor called President Trump’s behavior as described in the report “unacceptable” and “more than disappointing” in a Saturday tweet.
“[Donald Trump’s] behavior described in the #MuellerReport is more than disappointing. It’s unacceptable & not behavior we should expect from our president,” Kasich tweeted. “It’s worse than I’ve seen in my career observing & working with presidents or public officials. America deserves better.” news link
Click to expand...

Former Arizona U.S. Sen Jeff Flake, a Republican, was also critical of Trump's behavior:
When asked if he agreed with Rep. Adam Schiff’s portrayal of Trump’s actions as “immoral” and “unpatriotic,” the former Arizona senator responded by saying the verdict is “now in the political realm. It would be tough to recommend him for reelection,” Flake said.
Click to expand...


Republican criticism of the GOP Trump critics -- most notably Mitt Romney -- has been pretty mild, at least among Romney's fellow Republican senators.
“[Romney’s] trying to say, ‘I’m going to support him when I feel he’s right, and I’ll be publicly disagreeing with him,’ which is what a lot of us say right now,” said Sen. Mike Rounds (R-S.D.), who is on the ballot next year. “It just happens to be that he’s a former presidential contender, so when he does that, that makes news.”

“We’ve got to work together as a caucus to get things done with the president,” said Sen. John Hoeven (R-N.D.). “If there is a disagreement, make it on the issues … that’s the approach that should have been taken.” News link
Click to expand...
 
newyorkguy said:
Prominent Republicans other than Mitt Romney who are troubled by what the Mueller Report reveals about Donald Trump include former Ohio governor John Kasich:


Former Arizona U.S. Sen Jeff Flake, a Republican, was also critical of Trump's behavior:



Republican criticism of the GOP Trump critics -- most notably Mitt Romney -- has been pretty mild, at least among Romney's fellow Republican senators.
Click to expand...

What if I told you we knew the GOP establishment politicians hated Trump since before the election?
 
newyorkguy said:
Prominent Republicans other than Mitt Romney who are troubled by what the Mueller Report reveals about Donald Trump include former Ohio governor John Kasich:


Former Arizona U.S. Sen Jeff Flake, a Republican, was also critical of Trump's behavior:
Click to expand...

I feel odd agreeing with theprestige, but I wouldn't read much into those two. Kasich and Flake have long been critical of Trump.

FWIW, I'd be happy to see Kasich on the Republican ticket. I suspect he's not challenging Trump in 2020 because he wants to make a less-controversial run in 2024.
 
Last edited:
I'm not reading that much into the comments by Flake and Kasich it's what other Republicans aren't saying. I think many people, regardless of their political orientation, are troubled by the willingness of the Trump campaign to embrace a foreign government, especially one like Russia. In case anyone forgot
When Putin came to power in 1999, he almost certainly approved, and perhaps even orchestrated, the bombings of two apartment buildings in Moscow, in which hundreds of innocent Russians lost their lives. As Amy Knight, a specialist on the KGB, argues, the evidence makes it “abundantly clear” that the Russian security service, the FSB (which succeeded the KGB), was “responsible for carrying out the attacks.” Concludes Knight: It is “inconceivable” that the bombings would have been done “without the sanction of Putin,” who exploited the panic they created to crack down on the Chechens and present himself as an indispensable leader.

Russia’s ruthless bombing of Syria’s civilian population and targets has been termed criminal by various Western leaders and human rights organizations, prompting U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations [under Obama] Samantha Power to ask her Russian counterpart: “Is there no act of barbarism against civilians, no execution of a child, that gets under your skin?" Politico news link
Click to expand...


This is from a CNN Money report last year:
On paper, Russian President Vladimir Putin is a man of modest wealth. In reality, he may be one of the world's richest people. After announcing punishment for the alleged attempted murder of a former double agent in the UK, that country once again put Putin's wealth under scrutiny. "Three hundred billion dollars or more has been stolen from the Russian people by [Putin]. We should expose him for what he is," UK foreign affairs committee chair Tom Tugendhat said Wednesday. Link
Click to expand...

Then you add in the political murders, the jailed dissidents, the crackdown on civil liberties inside Russia.

"I love it!"

.
 

Attachments

  • Don and Don.jpg
    Don and Don.jpg
    55.5 KB · Views: 12
theprestige said:
What if I told you we knew the GOP establishment politicians hated Trump since before the election?
Click to expand...

You mean the ones that roundly criticized him, called him unfit for office and would never support him but are so far up his ass now that it takes a search and rescue team to find them? I'd say typical of the Republican hypocrisy.
 
Donald Trump on Putin:
Tweet 2013 - Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?

FOX News 2015 - “I feel that Putin is somebody I would actually get along with him."

FOX News 2015 - "I will tell you that I think in terms of leadership, he is getting an 'A,' and our president is not doing so well," Trump said. "They did not look good together."

Dec 2015 - Trump said on Morning Joe that Putin was a better leader than Obama, and dismissed Joe Scarborough’s allegations that the Russian president “kills journalists that don’t agree with him. He’s running his country and at least he’s a leader, unlike what we have in this country,” Trump said. He added: "I think our country does plenty of killing also, Joe, so you know. There's a lot of stupidity going on in the world right now, a lot of killing going on, a lot of stupidity." CNN link
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom