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The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

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The Big Dog said:
It is odd how the leftist liars claim he promised to do something

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5ec69ce24565

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/times-donald-trump-release-tax-returns-article-1.3061868

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/03/why-have-we-not-seen-trumps-tax-returns-yet_partner/

All deliberately use the word promise, that lie has been repeated here, pointing out that it is a lie now becomes a quibble.

Folk the leftists are gaslighting you.
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Bravo. I have always loved self-referential humor.

So. According to you, the leftists are trying to convince the leftists that they are so confused that they shouldn’t trust their memories. The are physical video recordings of President atrump saying things and then denying them. Actual evidence. There are photos and videos showing that this president’s inauguration crowd was smaller than President Obama’s. But when President Trump asserts that his was bigger, the elected Republicans say “let’s go along with it, we don’t want to upset him. He lashes out when someone disagrees with him, so we all have to pretend that he is telling the truth.

tl;dr the party that gave us “the sound of windmills causes cancer,” doesn’t have enough credibility to make assertions about who is lying and who is telling the truth.
 
But again in a weird, cynical way it's brilliant. It's the "One Man Gish Gallop" I've brought up before and the odd and depressing fact that you can be so wrong that you're intellectually untouchable.

Trump wants to order a cheeseburger for dinner. The Democrats want to order hot dogs. 30 seconds later Trump just flight out denies he ever said he wanted a cheeseburger. "Yes you did" the Democrats point out. "No I didn't." Trump says. He flat out denys it. He pulls the whole "I said I wanted a hamburger with cheese" routine. He'll launch into a Jabbian game of disagreeing about every part of the original disagreement, making the Democrats (hell making even sane members of his own party sometime) wear themselves out just pulling the argument back to sanity. It's a goddamn intellectual rope-a-dope.

See the terrifying genius in that? He's so wrong by the time we pull the argument kicking and screaming back to "Cheeseburgers or hot dogs" we'll give Trump his goddamn cheeseburger because we so sick of arguing at that point.

Trump has weaponized being wrong.
 
Actually, Trump is a one-trick pony. And four years are plenty to make that obvious.
If Trump makes it to a Presidential debate, Dems will have a strategy that will make him look like the toddler he is.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Actually, Trump is a one-trick pony. And four years are plenty to make that obvious.
If Trump makes it to a Presidential debate, Dems will have a strategy that will make him look like the toddler he is.
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*Confused* And that didn't work during the debates in 2016 election because.... why exactly?

Right another "Yeah it's never worked against Trump before, but this time will be different."

Stop it with the "Oh yeah well this is finally going to show everyone how stupid Trump is" wish making. It's not gonna happen.

Everybody already knows how stupid Trump is. There's not a person in the developed world who doesn't. His supporters just don't care.
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Confused* And that didn't work during the debates in 2016 election because.... why exactly?

Right another "Yeah it's never worked against Trump before, but this time will be different."

Stop it with the "Oh yeah well this is finally going to show everyone how stupid Trump is" wish making. It's not gonna happen.

Everybody already knows how stupid Trump is. There's not a person in the developed world who doesn't. His supporters just don't care.
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I would say that "everybody" didn't realize the level of his nonsense. These last few years have given a plethora of instances of how ****** he is as a human. I don't see this next election as being the same as the last. I truly believe there are a lot of people that won't hold their nose and vote for Trump again.
 
plague311 said:
I would say that "everybody" didn't realize the level of his nonsense. These last few years have given a plethora of instances of how ****** he is as a human. I don't see this next election as being the same as the last. I truly believe there are a lot of people that won't hold their nose and vote for Trump again.
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I think you're probably right.

I'm just not counting on you being right.

"But this time will be different" is a shaky basket to put all your eggs in. And I'm more skeptical than most that Trump's standing has been reduced in the eyes of his supporters or any meaningful number of "neutral" parties.
 
The Big Dog said:
He didn't make a pledge, promise or guarantee.

I find it amazing that rather than actually quoting it, people insist on characterizing his words as something that they were not.
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Already quoted by newyorkguy, what what the hell:

MAY 20, 2014:

More than a year before he announced his presidential campaign, Trump told an Irish television station that he would "absolutely" release his tax returns if he entered the race.

"If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that."
He lied. You're either wrong or using an understanding of 'promise' that is unique among non-deranged adults.
 
GlennB said:
"If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that."
He lied. You're either wrong or using an understanding of 'promise' that is unique among non-deranged adults.
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In his defense he didn't "decide" to run for office, he was ordered to by Putin.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I think you're probably right.

I'm just not counting on you being right.

"But this time will be different" is a shaky basket to put all your eggs in. And I'm more skeptical than most that Trump's standing has been reduced in the eyes of his supporters or any meaningful number of "neutral" parties.
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Oh I'm certainly not counting on anything either. I counted on the general public being educated enough to see what kind of a fool he was in the first place. That obviously didn't work.

I'm in a unique position in North Dakota where my federal vote means nothing, but I can honestly say Trump is still widely popular here. If you were to go to a KVLY thread about Trump on facebook you would see a lot of support for him still.
 
The Big Dog said:
That is right, he did not, so don't use that word.

This is not difficult folks.
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- Daddy, can I have a pony for by birthday?

- Of course! Mom and I are getting you a pony, absolutely, no question! A pony is on its way, you can be sure of that! Frankly, everyone’s excited about the pony you’ll be getting for your birthday. The pony that, on your birthday you will certainly, no lie or exaggeration, 100% be getting. Think of a name for the pony that is soon to be yours. Think of how much you will enjoy brushing and feeding and nuzzling and especially riding your pony! We, your parents, can only imagine the look of complete adoration that will be in your eyes, wet with tears of joy on the occasion of a birthday that will never be surpassed in your lifetime. It’s a tale you’ll one day share with your grandchildren: The Birthday Pony*.



*Guaranteed!

Stupid kid, right, TBD?
 
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autumn1971 said:
At The Citadel it was pointed out that saying you weren’t absent for bed-check at 2300 to a superior because bed-check was actually at 2330 was grounds for expulsion.
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This is fascinating. Is that example supposed to help you? Because i am absolutely certain that everyone reading it sees how unbelievably unreasonable that is.

Citadel; Bed check is at 2330
cadet; in bed at 2330
Citaedel; you were not present at bed check at 2300
cadet: Bed check was 2330.
Citadel; Expelled
Skeptics; **** citadel
 
The Big Dog said:
This is fascinating. Is that example supposed to help you? Because i am absolutely certain that everyone reading it sees how unbelievably unreasonable that is.

Citadel; Bed check is at 2330
cadet; in bed at 2330
Citaedel; you were not present at bed check at 2300
cadet: Bed check was 2330.
Citadel; Expelled
Skeptics; **** citadel
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Getting worse and worse with each post. I'm sure you realise that everybody can see that your example has no relation with what's being discussed.

And if you think it has, there's something wrong with you.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
- Daddy, can I have a pony for by birthday?

- Of course! Mom and I are getting you a pony, absolutely, no question! A pony is on its way, you can be sure of that! Frankly, everyone’s excited about the pony you’ll be getting for your birthday. The pony that, on your birthday you will certainly, no lie or exaggeration, 100% be getting. Think of a name for the pony that is soon to be yours. Think of how much you will enjoy brushing and feeding and nuzzling and especially riding your pony! We, your parents, can only imagine the look of complete adoration that will be in your eyes, wet with tears of joy on the occasion of a birthday that will never be surpassed in your lifetime. It’s a tale you’ll one day share with your grandchildren: The Birthday Pony*.

*Guaranteed!

Stupid kid, right, TBD?
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I am fascinated how people believe that strawmanning the heck out of his statements is supposed to impress me.
 
The Big Dog said:
This is fascinating. Is that example supposed to help you? Because i am absolutely certain that everyone reading it sees how unbelievably unreasonable that is.

Citadel; Bed check is at 2330
cadet; in bed at 2330
Citaedel; you were not present at bed check at 2300
cadet: Bed check was 2330.
Citadel; Expelled
Skeptics; **** citadel
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But in this case, your argument is with the dictionary. I'm still curious if Trump has ever made any "promises" by your definition. If not, I'm curious if other trumpers are aware of the distinction that you and he make.
 
In TBD's defense, it's hard to seriously take Trump at his word for anything. Trump constantly lies and reverses himself, it's pretty clear that he doesn't really take anything he says seriously. Trump is bad faith made into flesh, expecting anything else if willful naivety.

So yeah, Trump said he would release them, either sooner or later depending on which quote you pull, but has not done so and obviously never intends to do so. His reasoning for not releasing them was obviously false to everyone at the moment he offered it, so there was no deception. Is it still a lie if no one ever believed it? If so, throw it on the pile with all the other lies.

Whether or not this constitutes a promise means little to me. Obviously he never intends to release them and the obvious reason that there is something there potentially embarrassing is the most likely explanation. All the more reason for the House to force the release.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
In TBD's defense, it's hard to seriously take Trump at his word for anything. Trump constantly lies and reverses himself, it's pretty clear that he doesn't really take anything he says seriously. Trump is bad faith made into flesh, expecting anything else if willful naivety.

So yeah, Trump said he would release them, either sooner or later depending on which quote you pull, but has not done so and obviously never intends to do so. His reasoning for not releasing them was obviously false to everyone at the moment he offered it, so there was no deception. Is it still a lie if no one ever believed it? If so, throw it on the pile with all the other lies.

Whether or not this constitutes a promise means little to me. Obviously he never intends to release them and the obvious reason that there is something there potentially embarrassing is the most likely explanation. All the more reason for the House to force the release.
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As AOC got Cohen to admit as well, there is a legal reason to go after the tax returns. We have testimony, albeit from a less than stellar source, that looking at Trump's tax returns is something that should be done because of what they would show.

It makes no difference what Trump wants. The IRS should release the tax returns to the committee so they can do their job, oversight.
 
autumn1971 said:
I’m not aware of any state School of Logic in the US.
If your god-emperor wrote a missive and was characterized as “saying” what was written we would only get the same dishonest quibble from you.

I honestly don’t get it.

You are better than that.

At The Citadel it was pointed out that saying you weren’t absent for bed-check at 2300 to a superior because bed-check was actually at 2330 was grounds for expulsion.
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Sounds like a ****** college you were at.
 
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