Electricity in Ancient Egypt

[MattNelson]

I should preface by saying I have an English B.A. with a concentration in creative writing. I titled the thread in order to permit a wide-ranging discussion including author Chris Dunn and others. However, this original post should steer us toward focus on one theory put forward last year by a Ph.D.

We're not talking about the controversial "light bulb" relief in Dendera (explained here). This subject will be ignored, as will talk of ancient aliens.
_______________________________________

Yet, electricity was discovered thousands of years ago. Piezoelectricity, that is (rediscovered in 1880 [Wikipedia, Piezoelectricity] -- Define discover, right?) The dark age that ensued after 1177/1186 B.C. (depending on timelines) wiped out any memory of such advancement, I imagine [Haven't read the book or listened to the whole lecture.].

Mechanical stress on certain materials like granite, up to 60% quartz crystal by volume [Wikipedia, Granite], generates electricity which ionizes the air and creates a glowing light.

See image, "Granite glow under high pressure," source article "Lighting up Saqqara: An Electrifying Alternative Theory for the Oversized Serapeum Sarcophagi" ...its academic source named in the next paragraph.

At least 2 locations in Egypt used piezoelectricity, including the Great Pyramid. Let's start with the short paper/article published in 2018 by Ph.D. Konstantin Borisov, which concentrates on Saqqara: "The Serapeum of Saqqara. Alternative theory for the granite sarcophagus." [PDF download after registering on academia.edu, or read it almost word-for-word on the Ancient Origins website.]

Biography: Konstantin Borisov received his M.S degree from the University of Nevada, Reno and Ph.D.
degree from the Mississippi State University all in electrical engineering. He worked as a scientist in
Research Institute of Dielectric Materials and Semiconductors in Tomsk, Russia. He also worked at the
Center of Advanced Vehicular System (CAVS), Mississippi State Research Park. In the past 11 years he
worked as Sr. Staff Engineer/Sr. Project Manager at Johnson Controls, involved in design and development
of high energy systems for heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC). Konstantin Borisov has 7 US
patents and 15 publications.

"kborissov" also put his theory on Graham Hancock's forum:
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1152521

Notice one of his sources is: Chris Dunn “Lost technologies of Ancient Egypt: Advanced Engineering in the temples of the pharaohs” ISNB-10: 1591431026, June 24, 2010. He is author of "The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt," 1998, which has the granite of the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid performing in a similar manner.

Today we can see lights in the sky caused by this effect when earthquakes occur, as hundreds of tons of granite shift below the surface. [Wikipedia, Earthquake light] Quoting Borisov:

In summary I think the giant coffers of the Serapeum were used to generate electric charges with the pressure built inside by the CO2 gas. The pressure put on the quartz crystals created electric charges on the surface of the coffers. Those charges were dispersed from the underground toward the ground surface [18]. The released charges would ionize the air above Saqqara causing air to glow.

See a video where the theory is narrated on the channel Ancient Architects on YouTube.

The Saqqara boxes, about 24 of them, each weigh about 100 tons, including the 30-ton lids apparently hermetically sealed and massively designed to contain the highly pressurized gas. If that was not the purpose of such massive boxes made from such hard material, then what was? Was it only religious? ... burying the revered Apis bull that took up a fraction of the area inside the box? (See image, ancient-origins.net) Perhaps part of the reason the bull was worshipped was because it was the primary ingredient in the underground granite boxes... which created light in the sky.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I should preface by saying I have an English B.A. with a concentration in creative writing.

No kidding!

I titled the thread in order to permit a wide-ranging discussion including author Chris Dunn and others. However, this original post should steer us toward focus on one theory put forward last year by a Ph.D.

PhD in what? Creative typewriting?

 

[Trebuchet]

No kidding!

PhD in what? Creative typewriting?

Biography: Konstantin Borisov received his M.S degree from the University of Nevada, Reno and Ph.D.
degree from the Mississippi State University all in electrical engineering.

Unfortunately, lots of PhD's believe silly stuff, especially in areas out of their expertise. What we have here barely qualifies a a hypothesis, let alone a theory. Or perhaps he's just been reading Pratchett's Pyramids, not one of PTerry's better efforts.

 

[Loss Leader]

Did ancient Egyptians have experiences with electricity? Absolutely.

Did ancient Egyptians harness electricity for the purposes of doing work? Absolutely not.

 

[smartcooky]

The idea that Ancient Egyptians harnessed electricity is a bunch of "Ancient Aliens" hooey.

All this claptrap started with that charlatan Erich von Daniken and his nutty fruitcake ideas that they made batteries out of pottery jars, and that a wall relief in the crypts of the Hathor temple at Denderah depicts some form of light bulb. In reality the relief represents a sacred snake (often used in Egyptian mythology to represent the Milky Way) that spawns a lotus leaf and a flower - a part of the ancient Egyptian creation myth.

Electricity in ancient Egypt? Bollocks!

 

[Andy_Ross]

The idea that Ancient Egyptians harnessed electricity is a bunch of "Ancient Aliens" hooey.

All this claptrap started with that charlatan Erich von Daniken and his nutty fruitcake ideas that they made batteries out of pottery jars, and that a wall relief in the crypts of the Hathor temple at Denderah depicts some form of light bulb. In reality the relief represents a sacred snake (often used in Egyptian mythology to represent the Milky Way) that spawns a lotus leaf and a flower - a part of the ancient Egyptian creation myth.

Electricity in ancient Egypt? Bollocks!

This exactly. I can't think of anything else to add to the subject.

 

[Bikewer]

I recall the Mythbusters did a segment on the “Bagdad battery” and determined that it actually worked... But were pretty much unable to figure out a use for the thing other than shocking people....

 

[theprestige]

MattNelson, could you please summarize one of the central claims in simple terms?

Something like: "The ancient Egyptians knew how to get light from granite under pressure, and built some structures with this goal in mind. For example, the..."

And then cite the works in which the example is discussed and the details of the theory explained.

Could you do that? I'm having a hard time being clear about what is going on in your first post. Thanks in advance!

 

[ahhell]

Did ancient Egyptians have experiences with electricity? Absolutely.

Did ancient Egyptians harness electricity for the purposes of doing work? Absolutely not.

To be fair, we can only say, "Did ancient Egyptians harness electricity for purposes of doing work? Probably not but with a high degree of certainty."

I recall the Mythbusters did a segment on the “Bagdad battery” and determined that it actually worked... But were pretty much unable to figure out a use for the thing other than shocking people....

The worlds first joy buzzer? Probably just and accident of the form rather than the function though.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you want to exert a sufficiently large hydrostatic pressure on a solid object to cause it to exhibit piezoelectric effects, surrounding it by a gas is a pretty good way of ensuring you'll fail.

Dave

 

[Thermal]

To be fair, we can only say, "Did ancient Egyptians harness electricity for purposes of doing work? Probably not but with a high degree of certainty."


The worlds first joy buzzer? Probably just and accident of the form rather than the function though.

If they had harnessed electricity, we would find evidence of that usage in archeological digs and hieroglyphs. The 'bulbs' in relief don't even make sense, as the ancients wouldn't have modeled after Edison's design, which was done for practical purposes (replacement, etc). Even the glass protective encasing would have been an unnecessary addition in an age where torches were carried openly.

We can say they didn't harness it with the same certainty we can say they didn't harness nuclear fusion.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I recall the Mythbusters did a segment on the “Bagdad battery” and determined that it actually worked... But were pretty much unable to figure out a use for the thing other than shocking people....

I could almost buy the electroplating idea.

 

[HansMustermann]

If they had harnessed electricity, we would find evidence of that usage in archeological digs and hieroglyphs. The 'bulbs' in relief don't even make sense, as the ancients wouldn't have modeled after Edison's design, which was done for practical purposes (replacement, etc). Even the glass protective encasing would have been an unnecessary addition in an age where torches were carried openly.

We can say they didn't harness it with the same certainty we can say they didn't harness nuclear fusion.

Considering that their chief God was the Sun, and originally ALL their deities were solar deities, I'd say they were pretty heavily into the whole nuclear fusion thing up there. And harnessed it via the crops, not to mention it's what drives the weather engine producing the yearly floods of the Nile, if nothing else

 

[Thermal]

Considering that their chief God was the Sun, and originally ALL their deities were solar deities, I'd say they were pretty heavily into the whole nuclear fusion thing up there. And harnessed it via the crops, not to mention it's what drives the weather engine producing the yearly floods of the Nile, if nothing else

Ra damn, it...I stand corrected.

 

[Trebuchet]

I recall the Mythbusters did a segment on the “Bagdad battery” and determined that it actually worked... But were pretty much unable to figure out a use for the thing other than shocking people....

Not even that, they had to hook up an electric fence charger to zap Adam.

Considering that their chief God was the Sun, and originally ALL their deities were solar deities, I'd say they were pretty heavily into the whole nuclear fusion thing up there. And harnessed it via the crops, not to mention it's what drives the weather engine producing the yearly floods of the Nile, if nothing else

Nommed!

 

[Thermal]

I could almost buy the electroplating idea.

I would if we found some electroplated artifacts.

 

[8enotto]

Egyptians wrote everything down about the health and medical advances they made. A lot has survived into today. No idea how much was lost along the way

Religious affairs were even better documented in vs. Military and political events also used to glorify the pharaoh of the moment.

And besides the odd clay jars with metals and pitch inside not one written/illustrated word of playing with this mysterious force or those clay jars.

Not like the ark of the covenant which was mentioned in writing and I understand even to internal construction. And I read it had been recreated on an experimental scale and was a battery of sorts... Which left little room for stone tablets.

So if the Egyptian culture had piezo or wet cell batteries they weren't worth writing about or too scared to reveal outside a small group?

Leo DaV. made a clockwork loin and left us his notebook, it was recreated for a museum. Amazing feat for his times and also noteworthy to be written about at the time. For a mere novelty item to amuse a leader.

If Egypt had this they didn't use it in medicine, war or religion. A lost ancient tinker's experiment that never got much attention? Who knows if they didn't?

 

[Thermal]

Egyptians wrote everything down about the health and medical advances they made. A lot has survived into today. No idea how much was lost along the way

Religious affairs were even better documented in vs. Military and political events also used to glorify the pharaoh of the moment.

And besides the odd clay jars with metals and pitch inside not one written6/illustrated word of playing with this mysterious force or those clay jars.

Not like the ark of the covenant which was mentioned in writing and I understand even to internal construction. And I read it had been recreated on an experimental scale and was a battery of sorts... Which left little room for stone tablets.
So if the Egyptian culture had piezo or wet cell batteries they weren't worth writing about or too scared to reveal outside a small group?

Leo DaV. made a clockwork loin and left us his notebook, it was recreated for a museum. Amazing feat for his times and also noteworthy to be written about at the time. For a mere novelty item to amuse a leader.

If Egypt had this they didn't use it in medicine, war or religion. A lost ancient tinker's experiment that never got much attention? Who knows if they didn't?

The what's this now?

 

[smartcooky]

I recall the Mythbusters did a segment on the “Bagdad battery” and determined that it actually worked... But were pretty much unable to figure out a use for the thing other than shocking people....

Sticking a couple of nails made from dissimilar metals into a lemon works too. It means nothing.

If they had harnessed electricity, we would find evidence of that usage in archeological digs and hieroglyphs. The 'bulbs' in relief don't even make sense, as the ancients wouldn't have modeled after Edison's design, which was done for practical purposes (replacement, etc). Even the glass protective encasing would have been an unnecessary addition in an age where torches were carried openly.

We can say they didn't harness it with the same certainty we can say they didn't harness nuclear fusion.

Yep.

The use of electricity requires wires. How did they make wires?

To distribute electricity to do any work requires a reticulation system, wires, insulators, posts and poles. How did they make them, and where are they?

To make a lamp, you need to be able to suck down the bulb to a near vacuum, and seal it off. How did they do that?

I could almost buy the electroplating idea.

I can't.

Firstly, we have no examples of electroplated ancient Egyptian artefacts... so no evidence.

Secondly, electroplating is not a simple process - it requires the electrolyte to be a liquid containing metal salts such as copper sulphate for copper plating, or sodium gold sulphite for gold plating, as well as an alkali metal pyrophosphate salt of some kind. You also need chelates (bonding agents) such as barium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide. The target of the plating needs to be scrupulously cleaned or the plating won't stick and will rub off. This cleaning is usually done with a strong acid cleaner such as nitric acid or a strong solvent such as dichloromethane (methylene chloride).

Stuff like this is not going to be found lying around in your average pyramid workshop.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The what's this now?

I was going to ask the same thing.

Is there any kind of source for this information?