The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

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Ladewig said:
It should be easy to co-opt. All the Dems have to do is say, “the guiding principle of the Radical Left is one standard for all political parties. That might seem radical to President Trump. That’s why he calls us radical.”
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That's a bit hard to chant at a rally.
 
Hellbound said:
You know, thinking about it, part of my distaste with it is also the implied insult to me (and other citizens). The idea that we're so ignorant and/or naive, that him molesting a flag is going to make us think he actually cares about any of those ideals.
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Not just ignorant...But stupid and gullible. But you have stumbled over maybe why I not only can't support Trump, but why I despise him. It's that smarmy grin as he says something I KNOW is a lie expecting us all to ignore it.

It's also the gnawing reality that he has got away with this crap his entire life while others get screwed.
 
acbytesla said:
Not just ignorant...But stupid and gullible. But you have stumbled over maybe why I not only can't support Trump, but why I despise him. It's that smarmy grin as he says something I KNOW is a lie expecting us all to ignore it.

It's also the gnawing reality that he has got away with this crap his entire life while others get screwed.
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Trump gnawing at reality... he's Nidhogg!
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Southwest border. They could have done the whole southern border, but they didn't, and he just says "the border," not "a specific subset of the border." Been a while since I've seen a good lie through statistics like that. I don't know what the whole chart would show, but I do know that this isn't it.
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The chart uses United States Border Patrol figures and they're easy to verify. Who are you referring to when you wrote "they" could have done the whole southern border? I wondered if you meant the sources -- which are listed as the Congressional Research Service, USA Today, The New York Times and NPR -- or the Congressman (or his staff). I Googled "US Southwest border defined" and got the map below. The part in red is definitely the southwest quadrant of the continental United States. The rest of the southern border it turns out, is water -the Gulf of New Mexico. The land border between the U.S. and Mexico extends no further east than the southern tip of Texas at Brownsville {where the red line ends).

The more important point seems to be whether Congressman David Price was accurate in calling border apprehensions at a historic low. The chart shows pretty clearly that apprehensions are at a historic low, the lowest level since about 1975.

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Horatius said:
I have to wonder what the point of this debate would be. Even in typical elections, they rarely make a big impact on the core supporters, and this next election will be anything but typical.

And remember the debate last time between Clinton and Trump? That was already a near ready-made Saturday Night Live parody, and that was when Trump only suspected that he could do whatever he wanted to do, and not lose his core supporters. Can you imagine what that debate would have been like after nearly four years of him having absolute proof that his supporters won't care about how he acts?

Because that's what we're going to get.
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It might be fun if the other candidates could get under Trump's skin like calling him Putin's puppet did.
 
Horatius said:
I think it's just that "radical left Democrats" is going to be the "Crooked Hillary/Lock Her Up!" of the next campaign. It's what he labels the entire Democratic party, no matter what proposal they make. Everything the Democrats say gets the ridiculous strawman treatment, and then he dismisses them all as "radical left Democrats".

Just watch it spread.
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True, but then the Dems should not make it easy for him the way they seem to be doing at the moment.
 
acbytesla said:
I agree with this 100 percent.

Still, everything Trump did to that flag at CPAC is grossly outside the norms of the way the US flag is supposed to be treated. No member of the American Legion or VFW would do what Trump did.


Also, I can't help but think of the many times I've seen the sarcastic descriptions of politicians metaphorically wrapping themselves up in the flag, I never expected to see someone actually do that.
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Trump's flag hugging is the kind of stupid thing that gives Patrotism a bad name.
 
smartcooky said:
Why would anyone want to debate Trump on the Propaganda Arm of the Trump Administration?
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Yeah, Fox has become the "Ministry of Public Englightment and Propaganda" for a new century;problem is they are not nearly as clever about it as Joesph Goebbels was.
 
dudalb said:
None, except that which every major party candidate has:He can pretty kill the debate if he refuses to take part.
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If the alternative is that he DOES participate and the ensuing and inevitable debacles, is that such a bad outcome?

Part of the problem for the Dems previously has been that they tried to take him on at his own game. But as the saying goes, if you argue with a fool they will bring you down to their level and beat you with their fool skills. The Dems have learned. Have you noticed that none (or very few) of them now respond to any Trump provocations? They are effectively ignoring him, letting him rant alone into the void (and Trump's base is surely a void). Instead, they are taking on his policies and failures without taking on him personally. The myriad inquiries and public shaming of his former hit-men for a start. Then the total public face-slapping about his border wall and shutdown.

It's driving Trump mad that the Dems don't swing back at him now, because that's how he gets his jollies and his base worked up - being vile, belligerent, combative and belittling. The childish pouting about the shutdown, the near-constant stream of insulting tweets, the super-weirdo speech to CPAC, the embarrassing flag-molesting incidents...all trying to provoke a direct response from his "enemies". Who are having none of it. Instead, they are carrying on as if he wasn't there, just dealing with the chimp-poo he has flung on the nation's lawn.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
If the alternative is that he DOES participate and the ensuing and inevitable debacles, is that such a bad outcome?
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I think the debates, even before Trump, were pretty useless I doubt they changed many votes in the long run unless a Candidate REALLY screwed up.
I think they were like the Oscars:A lot of people watched in hopes of seeing one of the candidates really mess up.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It's driving Trump mad that the Dems don't swing back at him now, because that's how he gets his jollies and his base worked up - being vile, belligerent, combative and belittling. The childish pouting about the shutdown, the near-constant stream of insulting tweets, the super-weirdo speech to CPAC, the embarrassing flag-molesting incidents...all trying to provoke a direct response from his "enemies".
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I'm with you on the first three, but the last, I think, was meant seriously and directed at his base. He thinks they'll identify with the gesture, by and large. Just as they identify with barging into the changing-room at a beauty contest because you can; the nastiness of the thing simply doesn't register with them.
 
dudalb said:
True, but then the Dems should not make it easy for him the way they seem to be doing at the moment.
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But that's the point: there's literally nothing that they could propose as a policy that he wouldn't label "radical left", and his idiot followers will eat that up.
 
dudalb said:
I think the debates, even before Trump, were pretty useless I doubt they changed many votes in the long run unless a Candidate REALLY screwed up.
I think they were like the Oscars:A lot of people watched in hopes of seeing one of the candidates really mess up.
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Listening to Jane Meyer on PBS (Teri Gross, Fresh Air) right now about her latest article in the New Yorker, Trump was given Megyn Kelly's question ahead of time about Trump's disgusting comments about women. The content of Trump's reply was neither here nor there but supposedly his quick clever response showed him as having the right stuff. It made him look smart and quick-witted.
 
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