The Trump Presidency 13: The (James) Baker's Dozen

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Mumbles said:
:)

But...

when I was in a private school, one of the feel-good jobs that we had was Flag duty. We learned how to fold the flag properly, how to unfurl it properly, and so on. And due to that, there's an admittedly irrational part of me that holds some reverence for the US flag.

When Kaepernick kneels, or just sits, for the anthem, I get what he's saying, I understand why. I can deal with that. When Dolt 45 walks up to a flag and hugs it, I'm just...disgusted. I can't even imagine Obama doing anything so crass, or GHWB, GWB, or Clinton, much less any of the people who actually served in the military. I know what he's saying, I know he doesn't believe it and he's only doing it for applause. It's fake patriotism, it's really nationalism, and I despise it. It's beneath the flag.
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I thought it made him look like a dumbass
 
Mumbles said:
:)

But...

when I was in a private school, one of the feel-good jobs that we had was Flag duty. We learned how to fold the flag properly, how to unfurl it properly, and so on. And due to that, there's an admittedly irrational part of me that holds some reverence for the US flag.

When Kaepernick kneels, or just sits, for the anthem, I get what he's saying, I understand why. I can deal with that. When Dolt 45 walks up to a flag and hugs it, I'm just...disgusted. I can't even imagine Obama doing anything so crass, or GHWB, GWB, or Clinton, much less any of the people who actually served in the military. I know what he's saying, I know he doesn't believe it and he's only doing it for applause. It's fake patriotism, it's really nationalism, and I despise it. It's beneath the flag.
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I feel pretty much the same. My respect isn't for the flag, so much, as for the ideals it's supposed to stand for. Treating the flag with respect is not about the material object, but about giving a visible show of support to those ideals: truth, loyalty, equality, honor, sacrifice, etc.

So I can understand people who feel those values aren't being applied doing things like kneeling or sitting, or otherwise refraining from the traditional respectful acts. I can even see flag burning as a more extreme expression o f the same sentiment (I think it's counter-productive at that extreme, but I understand the sentiment).

But Trump's treatment of the flag, especially when compared to his actions showing absolutely no concern for the ideals it represents, smacks of hypocrisy and jingoism. It's a direct assault on what the flag actually represents. That's what makes it disgusting to me.
 
phiwum said:
It is tough to tell what he means or whether he means anything specific at all. The mention of "radical left Democrats" is just odd -- does he think he'll debate more than one of them? Is he speaking about the primaries? Who the hell knows?
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I think it's just that "radical left Democrats" is going to be the "Crooked Hillary/Lock Her Up!" of the next campaign. It's what he labels the entire Democratic party, no matter what proposal they make. Everything the Democrats say gets the ridiculous strawman treatment, and then he dismisses them all as "radical left Democrats".

Just watch it spread.
 
Hellbound said:
I feel pretty much the same. My respect isn't for the flag, so much, as for the ideals it's supposed to stand for. Treating the flag with respect is not about the material object, but about giving a visible show of support to those ideals: truth, loyalty, equality, honor, sacrifice, etc.

So I can understand people who feel those values aren't being applied doing things like kneeling or sitting, or otherwise refraining from the traditional respectful acts. I can even see flag burning as a more extreme expression o f the same sentiment (I think it's counter-productive at that extreme, but I understand the sentiment).

But Trump's treatment of the flag, especially when compared to his actions showing absolutely no concern for the ideals it represents, smacks of hypocrisy and jingoism. It's a direct assault on what the flag actually represents. That's what makes it disgusting to me.
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I agree with this 100 percent.

Still, everything Trump did to that flag at CPAC is grossly outside the norms of the way the US flag is supposed to be treated. No member of the American Legion or VFW would do what Trump did.


Also, I can't help but think of the many times I've seen the sarcastic descriptions of politicians metaphorically wrapping themselves up in the flag, I never expected to see someone actually do that.
 
acbytesla said:
Also, I can't help but think of the many times I've seen the sarcastic descriptions of politicians metaphorically wrapping themselves up in the flag, I never expected to see someone actually do that.
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Don't be ridiculous. Trump didn't wrap himself up in the flag. He wrapped the flag up with himself.
 
Belz... said:
Don't be ridiculous. Trump didn't wrap himself up in the flag. He wrapped the flag up with himself.
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Reports of the flag frantically rocking under a shower whilst scrubbing itself with carbolic and muttering about never being clean again have been denied by White House Spokespersons.
 
Belz... said:
Don't be ridiculous. Trump didn't wrap himself up in the flag. He wrapped the flag up with himself.
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I really don't want to know what he was doing to that flag. I just wish he would keep those activities private.

At least with Stormy Daniels he didn't make the rest of us watch.
 
Remember Obama's drone strikes, and how many people complained about them?

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
President Donald Trump has revoked a policy set by his predecessor requiring US intelligence officials to publish the number of civilians killed in drone strikes outside of war zones.

I can understand the need for the use of drones... they can be used in situations where conventional military actions are not feasible. But such activities should always be done as carefully as possible to limit collateral damage and 'blowback'. Removing the reporting requirement is a step in the wrong direction.

Also, from the same article:
There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office

Remember the good old days when some people claimed Trump was better than Clinton because Clinton was too "war-like"?
 
acbytesla said:
I agree with this 100 percent.

Still, everything Trump did to that flag at CPAC is grossly outside the norms of the way the US flag is supposed to be treated. No member of the American Legion or VFW would do what Trump did.


Also, I can't help but think of the many times I've seen the sarcastic descriptions of politicians metaphorically wrapping themselves up in the flag, I never expected to see someone actually do that.
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I'd had the same thought

jimbob said:
True.

Maybe he heard the idea that scoundrels wrap themselves in the flag, and took it literally.
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Beelzebuddy said:
Southwest border. They could have done the whole southern border, but they didn't, and he just says "the border," not "a specific subset of the border." Been a while since I've seen a good lie through statistics like that. I don't know what the whole chart would show, but I do know that this isn't it.
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BobTheCoward said:
Isn't the entire Mexico border the southwest?
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Beelzebuddy said:
No.
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It seems that the CBP does classify the entire land border with Mexico as the "Southwest Border" in its statistics.
 
Horatius said:
I think it's just that "radical left Democrats" is going to be the "Crooked Hillary/Lock Her Up!" of the next campaign. It's what he labels the entire Democratic party, no matter what proposal they make. Everything the Democrats say gets the ridiculous strawman treatment, and then he dismisses them all as "radical left Democrats".

Just watch it spread.
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It should be easy to co-opt. All the Dems have to do is say, “the guiding principle of the Radical Left is one standard for all political parties. That might seem radical to President Trump. That’s why he calls us radical.”
 
acbytesla said:
I agree with this 100 percent.

Still, everything Trump did to that flag at CPAC is grossly outside the norms of the way the US flag is supposed to be treated. No member of the American Legion or VFW would do what Trump did.


Also, I can't help but think of the many times I've seen the sarcastic descriptions of politicians metaphorically wrapping themselves up in the flag, I never expected to see someone actually do that.
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You know, thinking about it, part of my distaste with it is also the implied insult to me (and other citizens). The idea that we're so ignorant and/or naive, that him molesting a flag is going to make us think he actually cares about any of those ideals.

Sadly, I suspect some are.

More sadly, those that are have the same voting power as everyone else.

Sometimes I feel like we should write off democracy as a failed experiment.[/cynicism]
 
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