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David Icke's Visa Cancelled

Childlike Empress said:
I have not accused you personally of making something up as should be clear from earlier posts. I accused you of parroting. And it doesn't make it better that "many agencies" report the same. It's part of the problem.
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David Icke is an incoherent blatherer and works antiSemitic tropes into his talks and books. This is a plain fact. In this context rhe quote you provided does look like dog whistling but there seems to be more in that book that sparked outrage. I may well do some keyword search on the text to find the passages that are at the heart of this. I am not beholden to the mainstream media and recognise the accusations of Holocaust denialism may be overblown. He is not hateful and malicious but a fool.
 
I am exepecting Icke to go to town on the upcoming Marvel Movie "Captain Marvel".
It has Reptoid Shape Shifters (The Skrulls) as the villians...
 
baron said:
It shows how fake the mainstream narrative is. 'Everybody' says one thing but when you look into it the whole 'anti-semitism' hysteria originates from possible implications of a misinterpretation of a paragraph in a book published 25 years ago. Icke is a nutter, yes, but isn't it ironic that he warns against precisely this type of thing.
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This is itself is a knee jerk and likely inaccurate interpretation of the basis of accusations. Nice irony.
 
Sideroxylon said:
David Icke is an incoherent blatherer
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Thousands of people pay quite a lot of money to watch him give speeches that usually last up to eight hours. I've never read a book by him but I watched several of those speeches. He's the opposite of incoherent, as some earlier in the thread pointed to as a reason why he might be dangerous, even because he is so engaging (and amusing). If you haven't done so I repeat my recommendation to watch Jon Ronson's documentary about him and exactly this topic, "The Lizards and the Jews". It's actually a bit icky (haha) how the events in Canada of 2001 relate to those we are discussing today.
 
Sideroxylon said:
This is itself is a knee jerk and likely inaccurate interpretation of the basis of accusations. Nice irony.
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The alternative seems to be that there is no evidence whatsoever, so which do you want to go with? The highly equivocal evidence of a paragraph in a 25 year old book, or none at all?

There are hundreds of hours of Icke lectures on YouTube. He doesn't speak in secret. If he is a Jew hater then surely you should be able to link to a video where he demonstrates this.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Thousands of people pay quite a lot of money to watch him give speeches that usually last up to eight hours. I've never read a book by him but I watched several of those speeches. He's the opposite of incoherent, as some earlier in the thread pointed to as a reason why he might be dangerous, even because he is so engaging (and amusing). If you haven't done so I repeat my recommendation to watch Jon Ronson's documentary about him and exactly this topic, "The Lizards and the Jews". It's actually a bit icky (haha) how the events in Canada of 2001 relate to those we are discussing today.
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He losely chains ideas together, nonsense trivial and well intentioned, while delaying any ultimate conclusion as if he was getting paid by the hour. Anyone setting out to provide crib notes on one of his talks will be working with a messy Rorschach pile of ideas. It seems to be why his follwing is so diverse.
 
baron said:
The alternative seems to be that there is no evidence whatsoever, so which do you want to go with? The highly equivocal evidence of a paragraph in a 25 year old book, or none at all?

There are hundreds of hours of Icke lectures on YouTube. He doesn't speak in secret. If he is a Jew hater then surely you should be able to link to a video where he demonstrates this.
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I have made clear the nature of his anti-Semiticism yet you misrepresent this too while grandstanding on misinformation and truth. Well done.
 
Sideroxylon said:
I have made clear the nature of his anti-Semiticism yet you misrepresent this too while grandstanding on misinformation and truth. Well done.
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'The nature' of it? That's a strange way of saying an absence of evidence.
 
baron said:
So post the evidence. I don't get why you wouldn't.

Unless...
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Unless... you have a comprehension problem or just trolling...

No, I will not labour the point I have repeatedly made about the nature of Ickes antiSemitism. Engage and critique it if you want but don’t deny its existence.
 
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Sideroxylon said:
Unless... you have a compression problem or just trolling...

No, I will not labour the point I have repeatedly made about the nature of Ickes antiSemitism. Engage and critique it if you want but don’t deny its existence.
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You mean this point?

Sideroxylon said:
David Icke is an incoherent blatherer and works antiSemitic tropes into his talks and books. This is a plain fact.
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A 'plain fact' for which you can find precisely one paragraph of equivocal evidence. Dozens of books, hundreds of hours of video footage freely available, yet all you're able to come up with is one shaky reference in a paragraph in a 25 year old book. On this basis you state that his talks are anti-Semitic, his books are host to anti-Semitic themes and that he himself is anti-Semitic, and far from being baseless speculation this is a 'plain fact'.

And you call him an 'incoherent blatherer'!
 
baron said:
You mean this point?



A 'plain fact' for which you can find precisely one paragraph of equivocal evidence. Dozens of books, hundreds of hours of video footage freely available, yet all you're able to come up with is one shaky reference in a paragraph in a 25 year old book. On this basis 1you state that his talks are anti-Semitic, his books are host to anti-Semitic themes 2 and that he himself is anti-Semitic 3, and far from being baseless speculation this is a 'plain fact'.

And you call him an 'incoherent blatherer'!
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1. False
2. I have only watched him talk in video. Quite a bit over a period of time since about 2005. You dont need to watch much to hear him going on about the Rothschilds for example.
3. Did I say that? I do not agree with that.
 
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Sideroxylon said:
1. False
2. I have only watched him talk in video. Quite a bit over a period of time since about 2005. You dont need to watch much to hear him going on about the Rothschilds for example.
3. Did I say that? I do not agree with that.
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That is a very strange response.
 
The very idea of a global cabal with its tentacles around the world is a Jewish trope. When you adopt it and its lead characters into your own paranoid conspiracy you only serve to perpetuate it. You turn up the otherising of members of the Rothschild family to eleven by the ultimate dehumanisation, casting them as reptiles from another planet.

I have no idea if Icke is doing this with hate. He seems like a kind person.
 
Just as my own opinion: Icke simply parrots any old **** that will gain him ongoing fame or at least notoriety. Because he is doing the classic TV evangelist money-grubbing crank-scheme: Make people pay to hear him speak his diatribe.

So once again for the dim of brain: Icke is in this for the money only. That is all.

So you may conceivably argue that he is anti-Semitic or a lizard-king proponent or a shape-shifter ambassador, and call him deluded, nutty or insane. He doesn't care...as long as you show up and pay!

If you believe any of his stuff is genuinely real, you have been suckered in by a shonky salesman (and you need to take a few steps back, IMHO, and take a good long look at yourself).

If you are arguing that he has the "right" to speak his mind because of laws, constitutions, conventions and other legal blah, then you are enabling his shonkiness. Icke uses these legal platforms to build himself a flock of sheep to fleece, and you are being his shepherds. You think you are "doing the right thing". In fact you are enabling a huckster. Did you vote for Trump too?

Icke is not censored in Australia. You can buy his books here, see his Youtubes, he is in the papers and we can talk about him. He can broadcast to here with impunity. So any talk of censorship is nonsense. Firing up your anti-censorship outrage by fueling it with righteous rage about censorship in Australia (and by extension making silly claims about our society) shows you have rejected reality and substituted your own. That's childish...and Trumpian.

Icke has been denied a visa because he is "of bad character". Is this justified? I'm not sure. In my view, it is his blatant hucksterism and shyster schemes that makes him an exceptionally bad character, not his apparent anti-Semitic views. I would rather he ******-off somewhere else. But that's just me, because there are a number of other shysters like him I would be equally happy to see the back of.

Incidentally, I agree with the UK decision to deny Chopper Reid a visa. He was also a dreadful thug all round. Think of the Kray brothers but with bad style, tattoos and no ears.
 
psionl0 said:
Are you trying to have it both ways?

You still haven't explained why Icke should be treated differently to anybody else who might want a visa to enter Australia.
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I don't know where you get the impression that I think he should be treated differently from anyone else. The Minister gets to deny anyone's visa on character grounds.

theprestige said:
He's an official of your democratic government. He answers to you. Outside of certain matters of national security and personal privacy, his decisions are supposed to be transparent to you.

He has not given you a good reason to deny Icke's entrance. Why is it so hard for you to just plainly say so?
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What makes you think he hasn't given me a good reason? Did you not read the article? The reason is that his antisemitic rhetoric is not welcome here. I think that's a pretty good reason myself, though as I said, the actual effect of denying his visa is probably going to be more or less negligible for all the reasons that other people have stated. Apart from fuelling the usual martyr complex, of course.
 
On the 20th of February, the following statement was made in the House of Representatives and recorded in that day's Hansard.

Mr WATTS (Gellibrand) (13:30): The rise of anti-Semitism in Australian society is a disturbing trend that must be stopped. Over Christmas, we saw the disgusting spectacle of a Neo-Nazi rally at St Kilda Beach attended by an Australian senator, who doesn't deserve the notoriety of being named, where people were being seen giving Nazi salutes and wearing replica SS helmets. The Executive Council of Australian Jewry has reported that an unprecedented 60 per cent rise in anti-Semitic incidents—assaults, abuse, vandalism, graffiti and threats—has been experienced by the Jewish community in Australia.

No decent Australian can tolerate this. It's a threat to Australian multiculturalism. It's important that we have elected representatives and a government who take this threat seriously and act on it. That is why David Icke,well-known British holocaust denier, should not be allowed entry into Australia to preach his toxic message. As Primo Levi said:

To deny Auschwitz is to be ready to rebuild it.

Labor's candidate for Macnamara, Josh Burns, has been campaigning with Jewish community leaders to ensure that David Icke is denied entry into Australia. Josh knows about the threat of anti-Semitism. His ancestors fled Nazi Germany and, since Josh commenced his campaign to ban David Icke, he has faced anti-Semitic abuse himself. I call on the Morrison government to listen to Josh Burns' call and to act. As reported in The Australian today, David Ickes he could be spouting his vitriol in Melbourne, the home of the largest Jewish community in Australia, in just a fortnight.

It's time to do something tangible to fight the growth of anti-Semitism in Australia. It's time for the Morrison government to act. (Time expired)
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I hope that puts to rest any claim that we haven't been given any reasons for denying the visa.
 
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