Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful

The Big Dog said:
“All” the way.

2 million human beings in re-education camps = limited

Learning!
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"Limited to specific groups."

Not the same as

"Limited in number."

Let's see if you can understand it this time.

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And still no citations beyond the vague "All . . . appear to be affected"

What evidence is there to support that assertion?

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We have reached the point where 2 million people in camps and an authoritative third party article regarding the Chinese crackdown on ALL religious people ain’t enough for our atheist apologists.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
No, I don't think you did. Both Falun Gong and the separatist ambitions of the Uighurs are a threat to the totalitarian control of the Communist Party: it even says this (about Falun Gong) in your link. The reason they are being persecuted is not for reasons of religion.
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That wasn't the question I was answering.

Cosmic Yak said:
Moreover, your answer, that the Chinese government has a goal of eradicating religions, and is exerting control as a first step in this process, is not supported either by your citations, nor by anything other than your say-so.
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Not proved perhaps, but it is definitely supported by my citations. When the official mouth-piece of the Communist Party frames the battle as "a struggle between theism and atheism, superstition and science, idealism and materialism", you get a hint at the thought processes behind what is motivating them.

How often on this board is atheism somehow equated to science and progress, despite it having nothing to do with such ideas? There is an implication that increasing atheism and the removal of religion inevitably leads to a more civilized society. I think what has happened in China and the old Soviet Empire, shows that this is not inevitable.
 
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Let's ask the question:

If China got rid of all religions, so that atheism triumphs over theism, science over superstition, and materialism over idealism: would China be a much better place? Is that an end worth striving for? (Assume they do it through wide-spread education rather than banning outright.)
 
The Big Dog said:
Oof, boy howdy did that first question miss the point.
yes
yes
yes, and I will also go on to note the fact it might not be mentioned don't mean it ain't happening .

By the way? All religious people are not being herded into camps might be the single worst defense of the Unyielding Marxist Atheist's human rights atrocities i have seen in an unbelievably long time.

Mystified that people would try to roll out that next level bull ****, wowsers.
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Well, let me make it clear for you. Well, you know why of course. ... Still:

Nobody here is defending atrocities against religious groups (although the level of pity may vary some).

What everybody is doing is pointing out that it is not driven by atheism, but by a totalitarian regime that happens to be atheist.

But I don't know why we continue, since you know that, we know that, and everybody else knows that.

Hans
 
GDon said:
Let's ask the question:

If China got rid of all religions, so that atheism triumphs over theism, science over superstition, and materialism over idealism: would China be a much better place? Is that an end worth striving for? (Assume they do it through wide-spread education rather than banning outright.)
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That depends on the actually desired end goals, first and foremost, as well as what you mean by "education." "Education" like they're doing now for many of them?

Either way, protecting human rights and promoting the general wellbeing, physically and mentally, tends to be far more indicative of the actually desired goals. Any method that seriously undermines human rights is therefore in opposition to the true goals in play. Science and materialism have shown themselves to be far superior at promoting the general wellbeing, physically and mentally, to superstition and idealism. Religion... is actually a bit of a wildcard, to be fair, depending on the specifics. Still, there's good reason for why it tends to have a distinctly weaker hold on populations that are happier, healthier, and have better protected human rights. The main direct opposition to religion tend to be direct backlash from religious people trying to force their religious beliefs on others, usually to the distinct detriment of the others (and potentially unnecessary harm to the believers, too), and infringing upon their human rights in the process.
 
The Big Dog said:
Putting a few million human beings in camps is "limited."
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Wow. How the number of Chinese in the concentration camps is growing! It started out as hundreds of thousands; they became "probably" a million; then a million for sure... I leave the thread for a some days and suddenly there are two millions that in a few posts have become "a few" millions.

I am afraid to leave this thread again. At this rate there will be no Chinese left to put in the concentration camps when I came back.
 
David Mo said:
Wow. How the number of Chinese in the concentration camps is growing! It started out as hundreds of thousands; they became "probably" a million; then a million for sure... I leave the thread for a some days and suddenly there are two millions that in a few posts have become "a few" millions.

I am afraid to leave this thread again. At this rate there will be no Chinese left to put in the concentration camps when I came back.
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There was an article, not posted by me, that said two million.

It was posted. In this thread.

It appears it was not read?

Thanks for posting.:rolleyes:

/by the way, the fact that the Chinese Concentration camps have been expanded has been described not just in a post linked in this thread, but in major media outlets throughout the world, including to cite another example, the wall street jouyrnal today. But the human rights apologists post sneering sarcasm instead...
 
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MRC_Hans said:
Well, let me make it clear for you. Well, you know why of course. ... Still:

Nobody here is defending atrocities against religious groups (although the level of pity may vary some).

What everybody is doing is pointing out that it is not driven by atheism, but by a totalitarian regime that happens to be atheist.

But I don't know why we continue, since you know that, we know that, and everybody else knows that.

Hans
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Yes they are indeed defending them, by comparing them to things like posts on the internet, or by JAQ'ing off and asking whether all religions are being put in camps. Your gainsaying of this point is beyond frivolous at this point.

"everybody" is not doing what you claim, and atheism is without a doubt a cause of the atrocities, as I have shown repeatedly.

I do not know why apologists continue repeating their repeatedly debunked arguments by bare assertion.
It would be easy to blame Chinese officialdom for such crass prejudice and bigotry. It would also be pointless. Anti-religious, atheistic principles are part and parcel of the formation and foundation of the Communist state, going back to its very roots.

It is common knowledge that Marx proclaimed that “religion is the opiate of the masses.” Perhaps less well-known is that he expanded upon the idea.

“Communism,” Marx wrote in 1844, “begins from the outset with atheism.”
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But the human rights violations are not driven by atheism, "everybody" knows that, declares ardent atheist human rights apologists
 
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The Big Dog said:
Yes they are indeed defending them, by comparing them to things like posts on the internet, or by JAQ'ing off and asking whether all religions are being put in camps. Your gainsaying of this point is beyond frivolous at this point.

"everybody" is not doing what you claim, and atheism is without a doubt a cause of the atrocities, as I have shown repeatedly.

I do not know why apologists continue repeating their repeatedly debunked arguments by bare assertion.

But the human rights violations are not driven by atheism, "everybody" knows that, declares ardent atheist human rights apologists
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Ya. Expected something like that. Have fun.


Hans
 
That being said, as evidenced by this thread, it is important to lay the blame on Chinese officialdom for such crass prejudice and bigotry, as well as its numerous supporters attacking the people who point this out.
 
I guess the argument comes down to what came first, atheism or communism and after that what serves someone's purposes to blame.

Personally having first hand experience with both of 'em, communism is the villain, not atheism.
 
BStrong said:
I guess the argument comes down to what came first, atheism or communism and after that what serves someone's purposes to blame.

Personally having first hand experience with both of 'em, communism is the villain, not atheism.
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I know that it is a meme, but "why not both"?

By the way, I just quoted Marx saying “Communism,” Marx wrote in 1844, “begins from the outset with atheism.” We have seen numerous pogroms against religious folks for virtually the entire lat 100 years, up to and including today, Unyielding Marxist Atheists, as Xi put it
 
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