What swear words would Jesus use?

[Libertarian]

I am one of the more libertarian (notice that is a lower-case "l") leaning members of this board. But I have no problem with government having regulations and necessary authority to make sure businesses are on the up-and-up. That includes inspecting places that are selling food.

We can discuss/argue this particular issue, but I'd just like to make the point that "one of the more libertarian" members would (I'd say should) not be in favor of government food inspectors. I'd also like to direct you to http://lewrockwell.com. After reading the articles posted there, I realized how wimpy my libertarianism had become, and I've sense added some calcium to my back bone. See what you think.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I did it for a couple of months in Mexico. I even brushed my teeth with tap water. I didn't get sick.

And I lived without refrigeration at all for six months. I didn't get sick either.

IMO, people are way too paranoid about food these days.

I'm glad you didn't get sick. But that's you. Maybe you have an extra-tough immune system. But what about AIDS patients? Or kids and the elderly? Remember the Jack In The Box E. Coli burgers? How many kids died from that?

 

[Libertarian]

I'm glad you didn't get sick. But that's you. Maybe you have an extra-tough immune system. But what about AIDS patients? Or kids and the elderly? Remember the Jack In The Box E. Coli burgers? How many kids died from that?

I also think Americans are too paranoid about hygiene. I tried to buy some NON antibacterial liquid soap the other day, and couldn't find any. We're getting close to Thanksgiving........we'll be bombarded with exhortations about safe food handling. It's a wonder we still leave the turkey on the table long enough to get seconds.

 

[Freakshow]

We can discuss/argue this particular issue, but I'd just like to make the point that "one of the more libertarian" members would (I'd say should) not be in favor of government food inspectors. I'd also like to direct you to http://lewrockwell.com. After reading the articles posted there, I realized how wimpy my libertarianism had become, and I've sense added some calcium to my back bone. See what you think.

What I think is that I make up my own mind, think for myself, and make my own decisions. I am not a member of any political party. Never have been. Likely never will.

I go my own way, and think for myself. I'm not going to agree with anyone or any political philosophy on every single issue.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I also think Americans are too paranoid about hygiene. I tried to buy some NON antibacterial liquid soap the other day, and couldn't find any. We're getting close to Thanksgiving........we'll be bombarded with exhortations about safe food handling. It's a wonder we still leave the turkey on the table long enough to get seconds.

I agree that we are too paranoid about hygiene. But some paranoia is good, and potentially life-saving.

The inability to buy NON anti-bacterial soap thing drives me crazy. So I use dish-soap for washing my hands.

 

[pgwenthold]

We can discuss/argue this particular issue, but I'd just like to make the point that "one of the more libertarian" members would (I'd say should) not be in favor of government food inspectors.

To me, the question of whether there SHOULD be government food inspectors is immaterial to this case. IF we are to have government food inspectors, they apply to everyone, including religious groups.

The problem with this situation is that, by selling food, the kitchen is falsely providing the impression that they have government inspection approval.

Even from a libertarian standpoint, a true free market requires an informed consumer. And a libertarian can readily support an "accreditation agency," albeit it should be private. In this case, the accreditation agency just happens to be the government.

This business is selling food as if it has been accredited, although it has not. It's like they are acting as if they have the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval when they do not.

In the current situation, customers expect restaurants serving food to have passed health inspections, or at least to be subject to them. Have the customers who have been eating at this place been informed that it has not passed health inspections? If not, then they are being deceived.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Should they be allowed to serve hot food without the proper kitchen equipement, even though a possible consequence is a public health hazard?

Given informed consent, yes. If your concern is a public health hazard, then you should be prosecuting the patrons as much as the establishment. Should it be illegal to eat food "improperly" prepared, even if you prepared it in your own home?

The Fourth amendment only prohibits searches and seizures done without duly obtaining a valid warrant, and describes the necessary information a judge needs to issue one.

No, it prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. The mere fact that a warrant has been issued does not eliminate Fourth Amendment arguments.

I mean, where do these kids think wine comes from anyway? And if it's mixed with vodka?

Are you implying that wine is made just by leaving grape juice out? Are you implying that mixing something with vodka kills all the germs?

 

[Ed]

Given informed consent, yes. If your concern is a public health hazard, then you should be prosecuting the patrons as much as the establishment. Should it be illegal to eat food "improperly" prepared, even if you prepared it in your own home?

Did they inform the public that they might get sick by eating there?

 

[shanek]

What swear words would Jesus use?

Probably the Aramaic ones...

Piecemakers has a long history of threatening county officials, even going so far as to threaten "Oklahoma City-like terrorism"*.

My question:

What does the Libertarian crowd feel about this group's right to run their business as they choose?

The licensing laws are bogus and only serve to keep down competition from the mom-and-pop stores. They're responsible for any adverse health effects from the food they serve, but making them conform with the licensing laws is bogus. If you have reason to believe their food is unsafe, that's one thing, but there shouldn't be a blanket guilty-until-proven-innocent policy.

As for the threats, those are crimes. Deal with them accordingly.

 

[Tricky]

Swearing might be a little tough for Jesus. After all, God d**ned mother f**ker would be redundant and circular.

 

[Ed]

Probably the Aramaic ones...



The licensing laws are bogus and only serve to keep down competition from the mom-and-pop stores. They're responsible for any adverse health effects from the food they serve, but making them conform with the licensing laws is bogus. If you have reason to believe their food is unsafe, that's one thing, but there shouldn't be a blanket guilty-until-proven-innocent policy.

As for the threats, those are crimes. Deal with them accordingly.

Did they inform the public that they don't believe in laws that regulate food preparation? I think, like you, that, adherence should be volentary but that the public should give informed consent with regard to their patronage.

 

[shanek]

Did they inform the public that they might get sick by eating there?

Isn't it the responsibility of the patrons to inform themselves? If you're putting something into your body, why is it anyone else's responsibility to figure out for you whether or not it's harmful?

Now, if they're misinforming they're patrons, that's a different matter.

 

[Ed]

Isn't it the responsibility of the patrons to inform themselves? If you're putting something into your body, why is it anyone else's responsibility to figure out for you whether or not it's harmful?

Now, if they're misinforming they're patrons, that's a different matter.

No, they hold the information. They present a prima facia case that people won't die by eating there, that is a reasonable supposition. It is unreasonable to have people play health inspector when the knowledge is not something that most people have and speaking for myself at least have no wish to employ everytime one wishes to eat out. Am I supposed to cycle their dishwasher and measure the temperature? Explore crevices for mouse turds? Is that what you are suggesting I do when I eat out? Everytime? What about the dating of foodstuffs? How can I inform myself if it is past prime, or even rancid?



And what happens if one does get sick? Does one sue or is it tough luck, they shoulda known better?

 

[shanek]

No, they hold the information. They present a prima facia case that people won't die by eating there, that is a reasonable supposition.

And people in our scenario haven't died from eating there. We don't even have any evidence of anyone even getting sick from eating there.

Besides, don't they present a prima facie case that their food tastes good? What if the food is terrible? Should they be sued for that? Should we sic the taste police after them?

It is unreasonable to have people play health inspector when the knowledge is not something that most people have and speaking for myself at least have no wish to employ everytime one wishes to eat out.

The classic whining of the lazy and irresponsible. You know those little diner guides every city has? Most of the ones I've seen are even free.

 

[Freakshow]

And people in our scenario haven't died from eating there. We don't even have any evidence of anyone even getting sick from eating there.

Besides, don't they present a prima facie case that their food tastes good? What if the food is terrible? Should they be sued for that? Should we sic the taste police after them?



The classic whining of the lazy and irresponsible. You know those little diner guides every city has? Most of the ones I've seen are even free.

You see earlier in this thread where I say I am one of the more libertarian members of this board? This is a great example of why I would never actually join the Libertarian party.

I'm not "lazy and irresponsible". I am BUSY! I'VE GOT STUFF TO DO! I WORK A LOT. When I'm not working and taking care of MY responsibilities, I am either playing or relaxing. WTF would I want to play health inspector? What do diner guides have to do with this? I've never seen one that includes detailed information regarding of the type related to health inspections.

 

[slingblade]

Cripes. Just read "The Jungle" three or four times over the course of several meals.

I'm not "lazy and irresponsible". I am BUSY! I'VE GOT STUFF TO DO! I WORK A LOT. When I'm not working and taking care of MY responsibilities, I am either playing or relaxing. WTF would I want to play health inspector?

Exactly.

 

[Ed]

And people in our scenario haven't died from eating there. We don't even have any evidence of anyone even getting sick from eating there.

Besides, don't they present a prima facie case that their food tastes good? What if the food is terrible? Should they be sued for that? Should we sic the taste police after them?

The difference between objective and subjective.

The classic whining of the lazy and irresponsible. You know those little diner guides every city has? Most of the ones I've seen are even free.

Absurd, sorry, just absurd. How am I supposed to know these things? Tell me, should I be expert in every area that government provides licsencing for? Everything? Jusus, when I go out to eat I hardly want to play cop.

This is where the libertarian thing looses me.

 

[shanek]

You don't have time to pick up a free restaurant review 'zine? You can't take 30 seconds to look up the restaurant you're going to and see what they say about it? Other people have done the work for you. And yes, they do rate things such as cleanliness and history of health problems etc.

WTF would I want to play health inspector?

Because it's YOUR body.

 

[shanek]

Cripes. Just read "The Jungle" three or four times over the course of several meals.

The Jungle is a woo-woo work of fiction and fantasy based on hearsay, fallacious reasoning, and stuff just being made up. It worthless, and it's laughable that so many skeptics are behind it.

 

[Freakshow]

You don't have time to pick up a free restaurant review 'zine? You can't take 30 seconds to look up the restaurant you're going to and see what they say about it? Other people have done the work for you. And yes, they do rate things such as cleanliness and history of health problems etc.



Because it's YOUR body.

And EVERY single restaurant is in there, huh? And what about when I'm just hanging out downtown, and see some restaurant that I've never heard of before, and decide on a whim to try it? I don't have any diner guide handy then. What if it is a brand-new restaurant that's been open less than a weekend?