What swear words would Jesus use?

[Lisa Simpson]

There is a religious "cult" group not far from where I live that runs a craft business. Their license only allows them to serve prepackaged food. But they serve opened, cooked food anyway. So yesterday, the OC Health Dept. came in with an inspection warrant. Seven church members resisted and were arrested.

Authorities arrested Piecemakers founder and leader Marie Kolasinski, 84, after she tried to force an inspector's thermometer out of a pot of soup. Then a fracas broke out, and four more women and two men were arrested. No one was seriously injured.

Macaulay said these people were arrested on suspicion of the following crimes: Kolasinski, assault; Kathleen Louise Needham, obstruction of justice; Douglas Dorsey Follette, assault; Deborah Lindsey Scherfee, obstruction of justice; Kerry Lyn Parker, assault; Judy Marie Haeger, battery and John Fredrick Ready, obstruction of justice. All were released on bail.

Several of the members, who say they are devout followers of Jesus Christ, continuously yelled profanities at the officials during the incident.

The Health Care Agency acquired the warrant from a judge after Piecemakers employees denied inspectors access to the kitchen Oct. 6, agency spokesman Howard Sutter said. The agency has had trouble gaining access to the kitchen several times since 1995, he said.

Piecemakers' food service permit allows the group to sell only pre-packaged food, not to run a restaurant, Sutter said.

The group prepares and serves hot food in a restaurant setting, but claims the government cannot regulate their business, based on Fourth Amendment rights.

Piecemakers has a long history of threatening county officials, even going so far as to threaten "Oklahoma City-like terrorism"*.

My question:

What does the Libertarian crowd feel about this group's right to run their business as they choose? Should they be allowed to serve hot food without the proper kitchen equipement, even though a possible consequence is a public health hazard?

Linky

It's for registered users, but Bugmenot has this:
Username: nombre
Password: letmein

*The part about "Oklahoma City-like terrorism" was not in the article in the link, but a separate article that is not online.

 

[clarsct]

Huh.

Didn't you know that Christian values are only the way we want others to treat US, not the other way around?

 

[epepke]

As much as I would like to see a Christian cult squished, and as much as I like the rule of law, the food laws in the US are way too restrictive.

I've been personally involved in an instance where the Boy Scouts couldn't sell hot dogs at an outdoor gathering because their portable sink (they did have one) had only two depressions, not three. I've seen instances where doughnut shops with surplus couldn't give leftover doughnuts to food programs for the homeless because they had to be packaged exactly like doughnuts that are sold in grocery stores.

The food-serving laws in the US go way beyond the bounds of common sense.

 

[Manny]

What swear words would Jesus use?

I'm thinking mostly self-referential ones. "Dad dammit!" "Me on a crutch!" "Me, mom and my step-dad!"

 

[The Fool]

Food kept at unsafe temperatures is dangerous...simple as that. Would you be happy to eat something if it was labelled age and storage temperature unknown?
A large part of the reason that the USA does not have the mortality rate of the third world is your pesky food preparation laws.

Some christians may want to keep a pot of soup at botulism breeding temperature for most of the day before feeding it to passing customers but they really shouldnt.

 

[Darat]

I'm thinking mostly self-referential ones. "Dad dammit!" "Me on a crutch!" "Me, mom and my step-dad!"

And of course "For Me's sake!"

As for the food laws - like everything else there can be good and bad regulations. If you are serving or selling food to the general public (e.g. a shop/cafe/restuarant) then I think it is good to have a known set of sensible regulations, that way I can make an informed decision to eat somewhere or not. Otherwise how else can I make an informed decision, ask to see the food preparation and storage areas before I order my £1.50 sandwich during my 40 minute lunch break?

 

[Mojo]

The group prepares and serves hot food in a restaurant setting, but claims the government cannot regulate their business, based on Fourth Amendment rights.

Does the 4th amendment apply here, as it seems to be a place of business (into which the general public are presumably invited) rather than a home?

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

Does the 4th amendment apply here, as it seems to be a place of business (into which the general public are presumably invited) rather than a home?

The Health Care Agency acquired the warrant from a judge after Piecemakers employees denied inspectors access to the kitchen Oct. 6, agency spokesman Howard Sutter said. The agency has had trouble gaining access to the kitchen several times since 1995, he said.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Whether or not the Fourth Amendment would have been violated without it, the fact is that the Health officials did not "invade" the kitchen until they had obtained a search warrant. The Fourth amendment only prohibits searches and seizures done without duly obtaining a valid warrant, and describes the necessary information a judge needs to issue one.

 

[Mephisto]

I know, I know!

How about, "Jumping Me on a Pogo Stick!"

 

[Freakshow]

There is a religious "cult" group not far from where I live that runs a craft business. Their license only allows them to serve prepackaged food. But they serve opened, cooked food anyway. So yesterday, the OC Health Dept. came in with an inspection warrant. Seven church members resisted and were arrested.





Piecemakers has a long history of threatening county officials, even going so far as to threaten "Oklahoma City-like terrorism"*.

My question:

What does the Libertarian crowd feel about this group's right to run their business as they choose? Should they be allowed to serve hot food without the proper kitchen equipement, even though a possible consequence is a public health hazard?

Linky

It's for registered users, but Bugmenot has this:
Username: nombre
Password: letmein

*The part about "Oklahoma City-like terrorism" was not in the article in the link, but a separate article that is not online.

I am one of the more libertarian (notice that is a lower-case "l") leaning members of this board. But I have no problem with government having regulations and necessary authority to make sure businesses are on the up-and-up. That includes inspecting places that are selling food.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I am one of the more libertarian (notice that is a lower-case "l") leaning members of this board. But I have no problem with government having regulations and necessary authority to make sure businesses are on the up-and-up. That includes inspecting places that are selling food.

I understand about being 'libertarian' as opposed to 'Libertarian'.

I don't have a problem with most food regulations. I used to work as a food distribution worker (yes, I was Lunch Lady Lisa) and we had to test the temperature of the food to make sure we didn't poison the little brats. And once a year, the County Health Dept. came in and inspected the kitchen. All of our food was prepackaged, reheated food. The school district isn't big enough to warrant actually cooking food.

 

[chulbert]

What does the Libertarian crowd feel about this group's right to run their business as they choose? Should they be allowed to serve hot food without the proper kitchen equipement, even though a possible consequence is a public health hazard?

They should be allowed to do anything they want on thier property, which includes running a potentially unsafe kitchen. If they serve unsafe food and someone becomes ill or dies then market forces will rub them out of existence.

This will happen a number of times in Libertopia, at which point an independent business or charity will arise to solve the problem. It will draft a set of standards, probably not too far off what we have now, and restaurants will feel economic pressure to voluntarily submit to inspections by this agency. They'll then have a certificate from this company framed above their cash register instead of one from OSHA.

But it will all be magically cheaper because it's independent and market driven.

 

[Orwell]

 

[Orwell]

http://baby-jesus.info/pics/rotate.php

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove inappropriate image.

 

[Orwell]

Waaaayyy to much free time...

 

[casebro]

The pre-packaged vs cooked-on-site debacle is money related. Basically, since pre-package means no cooking, no washing, there is less water useage. Here in California, new 'restaurants' are charged a one-time sewer charge of close to $1,000 per seat. Six tables, 4 seats each, = $$$$$ It's based on "dwelling units" equivilence, an apartment = 1 du, large house 2 or more, restaurants= ?seats/ du. I'd think the use of a restaurant would mean less water at somebodies house, but the cities can make lots of money this way. And these fees are the major reason the "cult" doesn't have the appropriate licences. Due to Prop 13's lowering of taxes, many municipalities came up with a slew of garbage "user's fees".

 

[epepke]

Food kept at unsafe temperatures is dangerous...simple as that. Would you be happy to eat something if it was labelled age and storage temperature unknown?

I did it for a couple of months in Mexico. I even brushed my teeth with tap water. I didn't get sick.

And I lived without refrigeration at all for six months. I didn't get sick either.

IMO, people are way too paranoid about food these days.

I was with a bunch of kids at an atheist meetup a few years ago and hung out around them. One admonished me not to use a bottle of fruit juice that had set out all night to mix with vodka. I mean, where do these kids think wine comes from anyway? And if it's mixed with vodka?

 

[Beerina]

I am one of the more libertarian (notice that is a lower-case "l") leaning members of this board. But I have no problem with government having regulations and necessary authority to make sure businesses are on the up-and-up. That includes inspecting places that are selling food.

But there is a downside when, like traffic laws, there are innumerable tiny things they can call you on to haul you in to hassle you for other, hidden reasons, such as why didn't you donate to the local official's re-election campaign.

 

[Beerina]

I did it for a couple of months in Mexico. I even brushed my teeth with tap water. I didn't get sick.

And I lived without refrigeration at all for six months. I didn't get sick either.

IMO, people are way too paranoid about food these days.

I was with a bunch of kids at an atheist meetup a few years ago and hung out around them. One admonished me not to use a bottle of fruit juice that had set out all night to mix with vodka. I mean, where do these kids think wine comes from anyway? And if it's mixed with vodka?

Meh. In a few years they'll all be putting their mouths on all sorts of disgusting things...

 

[peptoabysmal]

Me H. Me!