Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Slings and Arrows said:
"Big deal. Elizabeth Warren percentage of Indian between 1/32 to 1/1,024th. I.e., the same percentage chance she has of being elected president."

-- Ann Coulter (Oct 15, 2018)
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Oh, burn!

Wait, no. It has nothing to do with the discussion. But a right-winger said it so you have to agree with it.

The Big Dog said:
applecorped is of course correct here, as I have previously shown through citations to articles.

This is not merely a DNA test, it is taking the results of the test and drawing a conclusion, a task that has not been rigorously scientifically analyzed at all.

It is junk science.
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Until such a time as someone on your "side" argues for its usefulness, that is.
 
applecorped said:
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
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Many here ARE questioning the validity of this test. And yes, it's not particularily reliable, but it's the best one can do in the absence of, say, some solid genealogy. It's evidence for her claim. But of course, she's a Democrat so it doesn't count.

Here, I'll flip it around: I bet many here would accept the validity of this test if the results were for a Republican.
 
applecorped said:
Warren would have been better off not releasing these results and thus maintaining plausible deniability.

This just made things worse for her.
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I think you've not been following this thread since the beginning, then.

Or you're lying.

JoeMorgue said:
I don't give a tin whistle if Elizabeth Warren's DNA came back 25% velociraptor.
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I do. That'd be awesome!

I just don't get the whole "How dare my political opponents expect me to back up a claim I made publicly" thing.
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Where did you see that? She DID make an effort to back up her claim.

You see that as a bigger distinction then I do.
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If the distinction is that she didn't use it in politics at all... then isn't that a pretty important one?
 
johnny karate said:
Warren never claimed she was a Cherokee, only that she was of Cherokee heritage.

Why do our forum conservatives feel the need to continually lie about the nature of Warren’s claims?
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The heritage was sufficient to label herself as minority faculty.

Theprestige is right. Her choice to do that did not demonstrate the hlutmost care in choosing how to represent oneself.
 
BobTheCoward said:
The heritage was sufficient to label herself as minority faculty.
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Then theprestige probably should have said that instead of lying.

Theprestige is right. Her choice to do that did not demonstrate the hlutmost care in choosing how to represent oneself.
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I’m sure he’s thrilled to have you in his corner.
 
johnny karate said:
There is no directory listing referring to her as Native American.

So yeah, you claiming otherwise is a lie. Granted, it's a pretty harmless lie. But still a lie, no?
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http://archive.boston.com/news/loca...lling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren acknowledged for the first time late Wednesday night that she told Harvard University and the University of Pennsylvania that she was Native American, but she continued to insist that race played no role in her recruitment.

“At some point after I was hired by them, I . . . provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard,’’ she said in a statement issued by her campaign. “My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.’’

Warren’s statement is her first acknowledgment that she identified herself as Native American to the Ivy League schools. While she has said she identified herself as a minority in a legal directory, she has carefully avoided any suggestion during the last month that she took further actions to promote her purported heritage.

What minority did she identify as ?
 
TheL8Elvis said:
http://archive.boston.com/news/loca...lling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren acknowledged for the first time late Wednesday night that she told Harvard University and the University of Pennsylvania that she was Native American, but she continued to insist that race played no role in her recruitment.

“At some point after I was hired by them, I . . . provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard,’’ she said in a statement issued by her campaign. “My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.’’

Warren’s statement is her first acknowledgment that she identified herself as Native American to the Ivy League schools. While she has said she identified herself as a minority in a legal directory, she has carefully avoided any suggestion during the last month that she took further actions to promote her purported heritage.

What minority did she identify as ?
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She wasn’t identified as any particular minority.
 
crescent said:
Because it is harder to prove a negative.

She has genetic markers that are generally only found in people with Native American ancestry. This does not equal absolute certainty of Native American ancestry, but coupled with family lore of such ancestry, it makes the liklihood very very high. Not 100% certain, but very likely.

Then again, dilution happens, and the knowledge of genetic markers is not absolute. A person could have native ancestry, but not have it show up in tests. That would be very unlikely, but also possible.
Also, there could be some artifacts in the image showing that the scanned image of the birth certificate has been altered. We'll never really know unless the state of Hawaii releases the original super-long form to that crazy guy in the funny smelling home who frightens the pizza delivery people. Or was that a different refuse to believe inconvenient ancestry issue?
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It's not very unlikely at all. My own 4th great grandmother was Creek which I have well documented yet my DNA shows no N-American DNA. On average, I would only have about 1% of her DNA. Apparently I inherited none.
 
theprestige said:
No lie. Ancestry is not the same as heritage. And in Warren's case, neither are sufficient to support a meaningful claim.
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Warren never made this claim: “Warren claims to be Cherokee“.

You lied about that.

Not a good look for someone attempting to impugn the honesty of another person.
 
Did she release how much Neanderthal that she had? That would be much more fun for Trump to tweet about.
 
johnny karate said:
There is no directory listing referring to her as Native American.

So yeah, you claiming otherwise is a lie. Granted, it's a pretty harmless lie. But still a lie, no?
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I was mistaken -not lying- about it being a directory listing; it was what she told colleges which then touted her NA ancestry as an example of their diversity. So is it fair to say she lied to Harvard and UPenn? And that she lied when she checked the minority box when filling out the forms for the Association of American Law Schools directories?

Here's why this is a big deal to me. On my mom's side, I am of Mexican Indian ancestry. On my dad's side, I am of White American ancestry. Better still, my dad's family was from Oklahoma. I heard the same "family lore," about having Cherokee blood. I have never once identified myself as minority, Hispanic or Native American on any form. In fact, I don't list race at all, ever. Why should I? I was born in the US, raised as an average American kid immersed in American culture. I'm American, period. I think that if I did label myself Native American or Mexican-American or even just "minority," I would be appropriating a label that I don't deserve; I have never faced the disadvantages that such labels connote. Why would I gain by representing myself as something I am decidedly not? Warren is decidedly not Native American in any sense of the word and I find her appropriation of that "identity" to be disrespectful to the people who had to live through the oppression and discrimination that being a minority in America has entailed.
 
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River said:
Excuse me but did I or someone else make that claim? (no NA ancestry?) If so point it out by quoting it.

She made the claim of being a minority apparently. I'm asking: What makes her or anyone eligible for that? Feelings? A percentage of DNA? What is the standard? Can anyone claim minority status and receive potential hiring or other opportunities/benefits? (affirmative action)
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Nnnnnnno.
 
xjx388 said:
I was mistaken -not lying- about it being a directory listing; it was what she told colleges which then touted her NA ancestry as an example of their diversity. So is it fair to say she lied to Harvard and UPenn? And that she lied when she checked the minority box when filling out the forms for the Association of American Law Schools directories?
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Exactly as fair as it is to say that you lied.

Weird that you expect the benefit of the doubt, but you aren’t willing to give it.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Oh I'm glad that's finally settled.

*Pause*

Wait why were we caring about this again?
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We weren't.

"Who cares?" Trump said when asked about the DNA test. When pressed on the once-promised $1 million payment, Trump responded: "I didn't say that. You better read it again."
In fact, Trump did promise $1 million, during a July rally, but only if the test showed she was "an Indian."

At a rally in July, Trump said: "And we will say, 'I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian ... we'll see what she does. I have a feeling she will say no but we will hold it for the debates."

Later Monday, Trump said he did not owe Warren the money, saying that was contingent on her winning the nomination.

"If she gets the nomination in the debate where I was going to have her tested," Trump said.

"I'll only do it if I can test her personally," he said.
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Not only does Trump not care about it, he never offered any money and he has the ability to personally test someone's DNA!

Wait why were we caring about this again? Just because our president is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, and misogynist with not a shred of integrity doesn't mean we should care. In fact many think it's just fine.

OTOH,
xjx388 said:
Here's why this is a big deal to me... Warren is decidedly not Native American in any sense of the word and I find her appropriation of that "identity" to be disrespectful to the people who had to live through the oppression and discrimination that being a minority in America has entailed.
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Playing the Cultural Appropriation card - classy!
 
Stacyhs said:
It's not very unlikely at all. My own 4th great grandmother was Creek which I have well documented yet my DNA shows no N-American DNA. On average, I would only have about 1% of her DNA. Apparently I inherited none.
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Really, after several generations, it's not at all unusual. You get half your DNA from each parent, but which half is pretty much random, so, with just one ancestor of a given ethnicity, you can very easily end up with none of whatever markers the test might be looking for.
 
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