Nobody is challenging K's right to protest.
Sure they are. God forbid a black man stand up against being shot.

No they don't. Protests aren't magic. If your speech rightly makes you a laughingstock, you're not entitled to respect just because you're speaking.
You're right. So why don't you shut up! Not nice is it?
Fun fact: Relatively few soldiers are actually called to go in harm's way. I served in the US Army for six years, encompassing the height of the Yugoslavian crisis. My unit was rotating troops into that theater continuously throughout. But most of the soldiers in my unit never even set foot in the country.
Fun fact: My bother did 2 tours of Nam and was shot on 2 different occasions. My father was in the Navy and piloted a landing craft on Omaha Beach and was stranded there for most of D-Day
 
"Nike, I love your gear, but you exhaust my spirit on this one. Your new ad with Colin Kapernick, I get the message, but that sacrificing everything thing…. It just doesn’t play out here. Sacrificing what exactly? A career?

"Taking a stand, or rather a knee, against the flag which has covered the caskets of so many who actually did sacrifice everything for something they believe in, that we all believe in? Well, the irony of your ad..it almost leaves me speechless. Were you trying to be insulting?

"Maybe you are banking on the fact we won’t take the time to see your lack of judgement in using words that just don’t fit. Maybe you are also banking on us not seeing Nike as kneeling before the flag. Or maybe you want us to see you exactly that way. I don’t know. All I know is, I was actually in the market for some new kicks and at least for now, I’ve never been more grateful for Under Armour."

-- Taya Renae Kyle, the widow of US Navy SEAL Chris Kyle (Sept 4, 2018)

Taking a knee is a respectful gesture.
 
Sure they are. God forbid a black man stand up against being shot.

You're right. So why don't you shut up! Not nice is it?
Fun fact: My bother did 2 tours of Nam and was shot on 2 different occasions. My father was in the Navy and piloted a landing craft on Omaha Beach and was stranded there for most of D-Day
My grandfather was part of the second wave of fighter pilots in the Pacific Theater of WW2. His squadron never encountered enemy action, and never fired a shot in anger. And he was actually supposed to go in harm's way. Turns out that even though he was a rich white dude, he was always more at risk from American police than Japanese soldiers.

What now?
 
My grandfather was part of the second wave of fighter pilots in the Pacific Theater of WW2. His squadron never encountered enemy action, and never fired a shot in anger. And he was actually supposed to go in harm's way. Turns out that even though he was a rich white dude, he was always more at risk from American police than Japanese soldiers.

What now?

That of course was never really the point. The point is that Black men, even soldiers are treated differently by the police then white people. That there still is racial injustice here at home and people are still as clueless as they were when the anthem was played for Tommie Smith and John Carlos.
 
Whoa. Back the truck up. This isn't remotely true. Are there problem cops, even problem departments? Yes. But I know a lot a lot of cops. My best friend is a cop as is one of brothers, one if his sisters, his brother in law and his father in law. I've been at parties where almost everyone is a cop. These are very good people that have a very difficult even dangerous job where they will be criticized no matter what they do. But every force is not Ferguson, Selma or Baltimore.


My stepdad was a cop. And he was, and is, a good man.



That said, my desire to acknowledge nuance is lessened by the absolutism of the other side who have declared that all actions by all cops are always correct. No matter how egregious the killing they dig through the victims past trying to find some way they can frame them as a "thug" that deserved it. Ignoring that people are undeserving of immediate execution even if they can be proved to have once flashed an ambiguous hand sign that might be gang related once in a social media post from when they were 14.


So I find it interesting that you find fault with my hyperbole but not with how conservatives have decided all cops can never be wrong.


yep. and well before he entered the NFL when he was even more overhyped. so why didn't he do anything then if he really card that much.? he only became 'aware' when he got benched for being ******?


Do you even know what Kaepernick's career was about?


Okay, here it is.


2011 - Drafted out of college football obscurity. Sits on the bench that year behind established starter Alex Smith.


2012 - Comes off the bench and leads the team to a superbowl appearance and is one play away from winning.


2013 - Takes his team to the NFC championship game is one awesome Richard Sherman play away from going back to the superbowl.


2014 - Still the starter but the entire team gets injured and he has a not-terrible-but-not-great season. Team finishes 8-8 and ownership overreacts by firing the entire coaching staff.


2015 - Saddled with a coaching staff that were hired based on sort of just standing around looking "coachy" Kaepernick suffers several severe injuries and leaves to get surgery.


During the offseason SF explores trading their injured quarterback and starting a rebuild. Their trade partner, Denver, wants Kaepernick to start but wants him to take backup money. Kaepernick refuses the trade.



2016 - Still recovering from surgery he starts the season on the bench and also starts his protests. Halfway through the season he resumes being the starter and finishes with an excellent touchdown to interception ratio.


During the offeseason SF asks Kaepernick if he wants to opt out of his contract, he accepts and explores free agency. By now he is blacklisted and no one will sign him even to be a backup.


In summation he served as the starter for at least part of every season except his rookie one. He was the starter the vast majority of his career and only briefly lost his job to injury before regaining it. Then he decided that racist murders are bad and everyone lost their marbles.


It's a bit surprising to see Nike and the NFL join Kaepernick and the drug gangs against the American Flag, fallen heroes and Vets, law enforcement, and the safety of our citizens. I'll only be watching the Cowboys this year, and I've been a big NFL fan for a long time. That way I can root against whatever team of kneelers they are playing.


What? Where did they ever ally themselves with drug gangs? You might as well say they are also allies of ISIS.


"Nike, I love your gear, but you exhaust my spirit on this one. Your new ad with Colin Kapernick, I get the message, but that sacrificing everything thing…. It just doesn’t play out here. Sacrificing what exactly? A career?

"Taking a stand, or rather a knee, against the flag which has covered the caskets of so many who actually did sacrifice everything for something they believe in, that we all believe in? Well, the irony of your ad..it almost leaves me speechless. Were you trying to be insulting?

"Maybe you are banking on the fact we won’t take the time to see your lack of judgement in using words that just don’t fit. Maybe you are also banking on us not seeing Nike as kneeling before the flag. Or maybe you want us to see you exactly that way. I don’t know. All I know is, I was actually in the market for some new kicks and at least for now, I’ve never been more grateful for Under Armour."

-- Taya Renae Kyle, the widow of US Navy SEAL Chris Kyle (Sept 4, 2018)


I see. The flag represents her dead husband but not the dead black men cops keep gunning down. How odd that she makes it all about her dead husband but not about the people that the protests are actually about.
 
"Nike, I love your gear, but you exhaust my spirit on this one. Your new ad with Colin Kapernick, I get the message, but that sacrificing everything thing…. It just doesn’t play out here. Sacrificing what exactly? A career?

"Taking a stand, or rather a knee, against the flag which has covered the caskets of so many who actually did sacrifice everything for something they believe in, that we all believe in? Well, the irony of your ad..it almost leaves me speechless. Were you trying to be insulting?

"Maybe you are banking on the fact we won’t take the time to see your lack of judgement in using words that just don’t fit. Maybe you are also banking on us not seeing Nike as kneeling before the flag. Or maybe you want us to see you exactly that way. I don’t know. All I know is, I was actually in the market for some new kicks and at least for now, I’ve never been more grateful for Under Armour."

-- Taya Renae Kyle, the widow of US Navy SEAL Chris Kyle (Sept 4, 2018)


When did the USA become a military dictatorship?
 
Sure they are. God forbid a black man stand up against being shot.

You're right. So why don't you shut up! Not nice is it?
Fun fact: My bother did 2 tours of Nam and was shot on 2 different occasions. My father was in the Navy and piloted a landing craft on Omaha Beach and was stranded there for most of D-Day

I was on a Frigate in the South Atlantic and got bombed and strafed

My Grandad was in the Royal Horse Artillery on the Western Front in WW1 and was invalided out after being gassed.

My Great Uncle Tom was in the Navy at Jutland in WW1 and was shelled, his ship was hit but he was uninjured.

My Uncle Harold was in an RAF Forward Observation Unit and went ashore win the first wave on D-Day and fought on the front line all the way to VE Day and was shelled and machine gunned on many occasions but came through without a scratch

My Uncle Martin was in the RN and was at the Battle of the River Plate and ran the convoys to Malta in the Med under air attack.

None of it gives me or gave any of them any more right to an opinion on patriotism or any right to protest an injustice than anyone else.

I hate any ex military who think somehow that their few years in the forces gives them more rights than anyone else who didn't sign up.
 
I was on a Frigate in the South Atlantic and got bombed and strafed

My Grandad was in the Royal Horse Artillery on the Western Front in WW1 and was invalided out after being gassed.

My Great Uncle Tom was in the Navy at Jutland in WW1 and was shelled, his ship was hit but he was uninjured.

My Uncle Harold was in an RAF Forward Observation Unit and went ashore win the first wave on D-Day and fought on the front line all the way to VE Day and was shelled and machine gunned on many occasions but came through without a scratch

My Uncle Martin was in the RN and was at the Battle of the River Plate and ran the convoys to Malta in the Med under air attack.

None of it gives me or gave any of them any more right to an opinion on patriotism or any right to protest an injustice than anyone else.

I hate any ex military who think somehow that their few years in the forces gives them more rights than anyone else who didn't sign up.

nominated
 
My stepdad was a cop. And he was, and is, a good man.


That said, my desire to acknowledge nuance is lessened by the absolutism of the other side who have declared that all actions by all cops are always correct. No matter how egregious the killing they dig through the victims past trying to find some way they can frame them as a "thug" that deserved it. Ignoring that people are undeserving of immediate execution even if they can be proved to have once flashed an ambiguous hand sign that might be gang related once in a social media post from when they were 14.

I refuse to abandon nuance. I see it as an imperative to maintain. This has NEVER been a black and white world. I am constantly annoyed by those who try and make it so.

I almost know more cops than I do regular citizens. My best friend who is with the SPD has 2 African American brother in laws. He has a sister in law of Vietnamese descent. He has 5 nephews/nieces of mixed racial backgrounds. And I he and I love them all.

I also know how frustrated he and many other police officers are about the race issue. They don't like being seen as the bad guys in all of this. And the vast majority of them aren't to blame. But our society IS. Its not that African Americans don't have a role in the dysfunction it's that the rest of us do too. Policing is never ever going to be perfect, but there are significant inequities that America needs to own up to instead of denying they exist and blaming those who point it out.
 
I refuse to abandon nuance. I see it as an imperative to maintain. This has NEVER been a black and white world. I am constantly annoyed by those who try and make it so.

I almost know more cops than I do regular citizens. My best friend who is with the SPD has 2 African American brother in laws. He has a sister in law of Vietnamese descent. He has 5 nephews/nieces of mixed racial backgrounds. And I he and I love them all.

I also know how frustrated he and many other police officers are about the race issue. They don't like being seen as the bad guys in all of this. And the vast majority of them aren't to blame. But our society IS. Its not that African Americans don't have a role in the dysfunction it's that the rest of us do too. Policing is never ever going to be perfect, but there are significant inequities that America needs to own up to instead of denying they exist and blaming those who point it out.


I'd be more accommodating if some cops would come out and throw their fellow cops under the bus every now and then. They always seem to stick up for each other even when they clearly did something wrong. Be brave. Say to the TV cameras that the unarmed man didn't have to die and the officer screwed up.


If they did that I might not be so angry all the time.
 
It's kind of ridiculous blaming the protests for the declining viewership of the NFL, for a start, the decline predates the protests.

Secondly it is a trend that we are seeing worldwide in professional sports. Down here we are seeing the numbers of viewers dropping in the Super Rugby, and even premier events such as the Bledisloe Cup matches between NZ and Aust have dropped. In the UK they are seeing the Football Premier Cup matches losing viewers to the point that they are worrying about how to combat the trends.

It's happening everywhere and for a number of reasons. One of them is that the tradition of only being able to watch a game live on TV is just not reality anymore. With online streaming media the games can be watched wherever and whenever a viewer wants to, with highlight packages becoming even more popular ways to watch a game in 15-30 minutes instead of having sit through several hours. On top of that, people are just getting burned out by sports that seem to be being pushed on to us 365 days a year.

So no, claiming that the drop in the NFL ratings is caused by specifically one thing is totally delusional. There are a myriad of causes and it's a worldwide phenomena.
 
What? Where did they ever ally themselves with drug gangs? You might as well say they are also allies of ISIS.
He'll probably say that next.

I see. The flag represents her dead husband but not the dead black men cops keep gunning down. How odd that she makes it all about her dead husband but not about the people that the protests are actually about.
Especially since her husband wasn't killed in combat. He took a diagnosed schizophrenic who he called "straight up nuts" to a Texas shooting range and gave him a loaded gun. The man then killed Kyle and another veteran. Kyle was trying to help the man, but taking him shooting was IMO bad judgment.

Pat Tillman, whose name has also been dragged into the flag controversy, was killed by "friendly fire," which came out only after an initial Army coverup failed.

Tillman's brother Kevin, who was in the same Ranger unit, came out against the war in the New York Times and said the American public "too often relies on superficial gestures to support the troops," according to the article.

Rebranding Kaepernick's protest as an attack on the military is a dishonest and manipulative.

The poster who lumped Kaepernick in with "drug gangs" is also relying on dishonest smears to further demonize the QB.

Kneeling strikes me as respectful. It takes some serious contortions to frame it as disrespect for U.S. troops. Trump was up for the task and his fans fall right in behind him.

ETA: My father liberated a POW camp in Germany with a whistle.
 
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Kaepernick is the new Civil Rights Hero of the Left, joining Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown. It's sad all you have is people like this to put up on the Progressive Mount Rushmore. Why can't the left find real heroes instead of creating them with fake news and lies?

What fake news and lies? What heroes? What are you babbling about?

The lies about what happened will never stop because the left will never admit they are wrong.

Who is this "the left" you are talking about, and where can I find this bible of things they must collectively believe?
 
So?

I was responding to a claim he made, not the one Travis made.

I'm surprised that this confuses you.

Ok at this point I think you're the confused one.

Person A: "Pizza is delicious"
Person B: "No, pizza is disgusting!"
Person C (you): "Well, pizza with pepperoni is awesome."

I think Person C's argument has something to do with Person A's, no?

Travis called all cops bad, basically. Acbytesla answered that this isn't the case, and you replied that some of them enable the bad ones. How is that not related to Travis' claim? Dude, come on.
 
Who is this "the left" you are talking about, and where can I find this bible of things they must collectively believe?

Everyone not a Trump supporter is "the left." The bible of things the left must collectively believe is the collected tweets of Trump and Alex Jones.
 
MY SOUP IS TOO HOT!
MY SOUP IS TOO COLD!
MY SOUP DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH SALT!
SALT DOESN'T MAKE SOUP HOTTER OR COLDER STUPID!
 
My stepdad was a cop. And he was, and is, a good man.

That said, my desire to acknowledge nuance is lessened by the absolutism of the other side who have declared that all actions by all cops are always correct. No matter how egregious the killing they dig through the victims past trying to find some way they can frame them as a "thug" that deserved it. Ignoring that people are undeserving of immediate execution even if they can be proved to have once flashed an ambiguous hand sign that might be gang related once in a social media post from when they were 14.

Wait a minute. Because those who disagree with you are being silly and stupid, you'll meet them on their terms? That sounds pretty dumb.
 
I'd be more accommodating if some cops would come out and throw their fellow cops under the bus every now and then. They always seem to stick up for each other even when they clearly did something wrong. Be brave.

Ever see Serpico? There's a strong incentive not to 'betray' your colleagues.
 

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