TERFs crash London Pride

pharphis said:
I asked for justification for this belief several times in this thread. It appears to have just been taken as automatically true.
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It seems to be accepted that any man, in any guise is inherently out to harm women.

At least that's my take on it from this thread.
 
luchog said:
So, that doesn't really answer the question. That merely says that early/mid-pubescent children who already identify as trans are able to get medical counseling and SRS at a much greater rate than the past. I'm not seeing how they're being forced into being transgendered.
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No, they're not being forced.

When it comes to "It is no longer unusual to have 12-year-olds presenting at gender identity clinics with the wish to undergo SR", I don't think the 12 year olds are coming up with the idea of seeking SR completely on their own, tho, either.
 
You don't think housing biological males in with females in prison puts those females at greater risk of physical harm?
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I asked for justification for this belief several times in this thread. It appears to have just been taken as automatically true.
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bluesjnr said:
It seems to be accepted that any man, in any guise is inherently out to harm women.
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If males in prison are at risk of being raped by other male inmates, I don't think it's outlandish to conclude that women would be at risk of being raped by male inmates, too.

:con2:
 
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kellyb said:
You don't think allowing people who went through male puberty to compete in "women's sports" essentially destroys women's sports?

You don't think housing biological males in with females in prison puts those females at greater risk of physical harm?
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Not really and it sounds like you're actually saying that men are inherently stronger, more athletic and men are inherently more violent than women.

Though, even if they are, that still doesn't make it more likely that a trans person would actually be better than women or that a trans person would be more violent than women either.
 
The Norseman said:
Not really and it sounds like you're actually saying that men are inherently stronger, more athletic and men are inherently more violent than women.

Though, even if they are, that still doesn't make it more likely that a trans person would actually be better than women or that a trans person would be more violent than women either.
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Males are stronger on average than females, and in terms of criminality:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.
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kellyb said:
If males in prison are at risk of being raped by other male inmates, I don't think it's outlandish to conclude that women would be at risk of being raped by male inmates, too.

:con2:
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Males are treated absolutely despicably and horribly in prison; quite subhuman which can provoke a more violent response and or a lashing out that can include rape but not necessarily. Also, rape is seen as an issue of power and domination which is going to be seen much more in prison as inmates vying for domination and control.

With a single trans person in a woman's prison full of women (who are fully capable and maybe one or two desirous of killing this transperson for a number of reasons), why would you assume that this transperson is much more likely to victimize another inmate by rape?

It's coming across as hysteria based on imagination at this point.
 
The Norseman said:
Males are treated absolutely despicably and horribly in prison; quite subhuman which can provoke a more violent response and or a lashing out that can include rape but not necessarily. Also, rape is seen as an issue of power and domination which is going to be seen much more in prison as inmates vying for domination and control.

With a single trans person in a woman's prison full of women (who are fully capable and maybe one or two desirous of killing this transperson for a number of reasons), why would you assume that this transperson is much more likely to victimize another inmate by rape?

It's coming across as hysteria based on imagination at this point.
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Are you asking why a male would be more likely to rape a female than another female would be?
 
Elagabalus said:
Yes, we all know that men who act like women are inherently violent. :rolleyes:
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Again, from the link above:

Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.
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The Norseman said:
Not at all. Please re-read my question.
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Your question was "why would you assume that this transperson is much more likely to victimize another inmate by rape?"

More likely to rape a female inmate than a fellow female inmate would be?

If not, more likely than who?
 
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The Norseman said:
As I said, it's the fallacy of division here, assuming that what's true of the group (as averages or likelihoods) does not mean that any individual has those same qualities.

You're quick with that study. What are the actual numbers of trans men and trans women in prison in the US say?
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1) I know the demographic trends aren't reflective of all or even most of the demographic. But that's not relevant.

2) No idea.
 
kellyb said:
Your question was "why would you assume that this transperson is much more likely to victimize another inmate by rape?"
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Preceded by a sentence setting up what I think is a tad bit more realistic and a little more precise than your vague "man vs woman" question you interpreted that I asked.


More likely to rape a female inmate than a fellow female inmate would be?

If not, more likely than who?
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If you're wanting to talk about violence and prisoners, I think that a trans person would be very much more likely to be a victim of violence and/or sexual assault. By women. In prison. Because prisons are full of violent and mentally ill women.


kellyb said:
1) I know the demographic trends aren't reflective of all or even most of the demographic. But that's not relevant.
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When you're wanting to make or change or effect public policy and law, it most certainly is relevant.


2) No idea.
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Too bad. It would be great if you or anyone else who is... concerned about this issue would actually count them up. I think no one will because it's far easier to sell the fear that way.
 
If you're wanting to talk about violence and prisoners, I think that a trans person would be very much more likely to be a victim of violence and/or sexual assault. By women. In prison. Because prisons are full of violent and mentally ill women.
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So, how common are female on female rapes in prison compared to male on male rapes?

In what ways are the conditions in prison harsher for men than for women, too? What is the core cause of the difference in your mind?
 
The Norseman said:
Too bad. It would be great if you or anyone else who is... concerned about this issue would actually count them up. I think no one will because it's far easier to sell the fear that way.
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I'm sorry you think I'm selling fear. I'm very much a trans-inclusive feminist, but I also think this is a legitimate issue.

How many female inmates raped by male inmates would be acceptable to you? If it would only be, say, under 100 a year, would it be okay?
 
This says there are about 1 million transgender people in the US, and wiki says 4.4% of the US population in incarcerated.

So, that's about 44K transgendered people in prison, most of whom will be male.
 
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