Trump immigrant family separation policy

jimbob said:
How can anyone justify that?
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By having minors brought to court they are being extended that most American of rights - the right not be deprived of a thing, except through a court. As this is an individual right, it must be exercised by the individual themselves, and if said individual is lacking in resources to obtain the services of legal counsel after having those rights explained to them, then it is beholden on that individual to represent themselves to the best of their ability and the results are then entirely on the individual.

As this is not a criminal trial, and the individual will not be subject to deprivation of liberty, the defendant is no more entitled to a lawyer provided at state expense than a person defending an action in a civil proceeding.
 
Border Reiver said:
jimbob said:
How can anyone justify that?
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By having minors brought to court they are being extended that most American of rights - the right not be deprived of a thing, except through a court. As this is an individual right, it must be exercised by the individual themselves, and if said individual is lacking in resources to obtain the services of legal counsel after having those rights explained to them, then it is beholden on that individual to represent themselves to the best of their ability and the results are then entirely on the individual.

As this is not a criminal trial, and the individual will not be subject to deprivation of liberty, the defendant is no more entitled to a lawyer provided at state expense than a person defending an action in a civil proceeding.
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You didn't answer the question.
 
WilliamSeger said:
You didn't answer the question.
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That would be a legal justification used by someone who supported the idea of minors going into court unrepresented.

Personally, I think that the idea on the face of it is abhorrent to ANY notion of justice, especially when carried to the extremes that these immigration courts are taking it to as indicated in the article.

The fact that a judge permits this to happen should be a key indicator that they are unfit to sit on the bench. They have abdicated any right to claim they are administering justice when one of the parties is clearly unable to understand object permanence, let alone legal concepts.
 
Government: 463 migrant parents may have been deported without their children

The Trump administration said in a court filing Monday that 463 parents of migrant children are no longer present in the United States, indicating that the number of mothers and fathers potentially deported without their children during the “zero tolerance” border crackdown could be far larger than previously acknowledged. ...

Immigrant advocates say migrant parents were pressured into signing voluntary deportation forms out of desperation to be released from immigration detention once their sons and daughters were taken from them and sent to government shelters.
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Perfect! Now GOP pederasts and psychos have even less to fear! I certainly hope the ineptitude of GOP fascists continues when the gas chambers for fake media get set up in 2020.

GOP = CSA = KKK.
 
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The cruelty, taking kids away from parents then not giving a **** if they ever get back together?

It's more of Sessions plan to deter immigrants. If they threaten to not give all the kids back, it's fine to give some back to make the courts happy.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The cruelty, taking kids away from parents then not giving a **** if they ever get back together?

It's more of Sessions plan to deter immigrants. If they threaten to not give all the kids back, it's fine to give some back to make the courts happy.
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If it was just not giving a ****, that would just make them typical Republicans. This was deliberate cruelty -- but then again, apparently that's okay with typical Republicans now, too.


ETA: Never mind. I just remembered Abu Ghraib, so I should have already known that.
 
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Aridas said:
ICE Forcing Parents of Kidnapped Children to Pay $8 a Minute to Talk to Them

Effectively hold people's kids hostage and extort money from them if they want to talk! Nothing to see here.
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Sounds like the sort of thing we increasingly do with anyone in state/federal prison, particularly private prisons - BTW, this only helps to estrange prisoners from the outside world, which further harms their ability to integrate back into society on release, and should be banned in general.

Can't say it's a shock, given what we already know, but it's another example of the level of cruelty built in to this garbage administration in general to have a system like that for anyone, much less the families they intentionally tore apart.
 
Making America great again!

According to immigrant-rights advocates, a 6-year-old girl separated from her mother under the Trump administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy was sexually abused while at an Arizona detention facility run by Southwest Key Programs. The child was then made to sign a form acknowledging that she was told to maintain her distance from her alleged abuser, who is an older child being held at the same detention facility.

The girl, who is only identified by the initials D.L., and her mother had been fleeing gang violence in their native Guatemala. According to the family, the pair entered the United States at a point of entry in El Paso, Texas, on May 24, where they presented border patrol authorities with paperwork claiming that they had “credible fear” that returning to Guatemala would result in harm. On May 26, government officials separated D.L. from her mother and sent her to Casa Glendale, a shelter outside of Phoenix operated by Southwest Key Programs. It was there that the alleged abuse occurred.

Before D.L. was taken away, her mother provided authorities with the phone number of D.L.’s father, an undocumented immigrant living in California. On June 11, D.L.’s father received a phone call from Southwest Key explaining that a boy had fondled his daughter and other girls. According to family spokesperson Mark Lane, D.L.’s father was told not to worry because Southwest Key was changing some of its protocols and that such abuse would not happen again. (Lane was connected with D.L.’s family through Families Belong Together, a coalition of civil rights advocacy groups formed in response to the recent border crackdown.) Lane says that D.L.’s father asked to speak with a social worker, but despite promises from the facility, he never heard from one.

A Southwest Key Programs document obtained by The Nation confirms that D.L. was reported to have been sexually abused on June 4, 2018. On June 12, one day after D.L.’s father was contacted, the 6-year-old girl was presented with the form stating that, as part of the facility’s intervention protocol, she had been instructed to “maintain my distance from the other youth involved” and had been provided “psychoeducation,” described in the document as “reporting abuse” and “good touch bad touch.” The form, posted below, shows D.L’s “signature”—a single letter “D,” next to the characterization of her as “tender age”—which supposedly confirms that D.L understands “that it is my responsibility to follow the safety plan” reviewed with her.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Honestly, I cannot believe this is my country. Even GW invading Iraq wasn't this depraved.
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I went to Europe almost immediately after the Iraq invasion back in 2003. I was embarrassed to be an American then. I was in Europe a month ago and was even more embarrassed to be an American than I was before. Not a single person had a good word to say about Trump.

I know some uber-nationalistic "patriots" would have a covfefe-fit by my saying that, but it's the truth. I don't consider what Trump and his covfefe kissers are doing now as being patriotic. I consider it just the opposite.
 
Stacko said:
Making America great again!
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It gets worse:

But the nightmare wasn’t over. On June 22, Southwest Key again contacted D.L.’s father and informed him that the same boy initially cited for abuse had hit and fondled D.L. again. According to Lane, D.L.’s father asked how the facility could allow this to happen, and the woman on the phone responded that she was only calling him to advise him that it had happened, that she didn’t have permission to say anything else, and he would have to speak with the director.
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Stacyhs said:
I went to Europe almost immediately after the Iraq invasion back in 2003. I was embarrassed to be an American then. I was in Europe a month ago and was even more embarrassed to be an American than I was before. Not a single person had a good word to say about Trump.

I know some uber-nationalistic "patriots" would have a covfefe-fit by my saying that, but it's the truth. I don't consider what Trump and his covfefe kissers are doing now as being patriotic. I consider it just the opposite.
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If you lived overseas as an ex-pat, imagine how much worse it might be. Say, having to let your spouse enter shops and negotiate prices and conditions prior to your going in, and before your foreign name or ID ever come into play, then witnessing the undisguised horror on the clerk's face when they find they've missed an opportunity to employ financial and commercial bias. Or being lectured by every potential client and business colleague on "cultural imperialism" and borrowings from the English language, none of which are germane to the matters at hand. Perhaps the worst is having to take local nationals with you to health services, else you find doctors merely take simple note and do not order any tests or give prescriptions, and when they do, they are for inappropriate medications or the most expensive alternatives. This is all before today's reactions to children in cages.

Americans in the 21st century are, for many, the Nazis of the last: aggressive war and torture as policy.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
If you lived overseas as an ex-pat, imagine how much worse it might be. Say, having to let your spouse enter shops and negotiate prices and conditions prior to your going in, and before your foreign name or ID ever come into play, then witnessing the undisguised horror on the clerk's face when they find they've missed an opportunity to employ financial and commercial bias. Or being lectured by every potential client and business colleague on "cultural imperialism" and borrowings from the English language, none of which are germane to the matters at hand. Perhaps the worst is having to take local nationals with you to health services, else you find doctors merely take simple note and do not order any tests or give prescriptions, and when they do, they are for inappropriate medications or the most expensive alternatives. This is all before today's reactions to children in cages.

Americans in the 21st century are, for many, the Nazis of the last: aggressive war and torture as policy.
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The Trump admin does not want Americans travelling outside of the US. Ypou might be reminded of how sane the US used to be.
 
Minoosh said:
Fortunately there are activists who will keep the spotlight on this case. It's sad that it's needed, but dad and daughter will have a lot of support.
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Kind of makes one wonder what a child has to go through to finally be reunited with their parents...

"Through the work of Families Belong Together and a legal team assembled for this case, D.L., her mother, and her father have now all been reunited."

"According to D.L.’s mother, when the family came together again, the young girl was confused. “I hugged her, I was crying. She didn’t recognize me,” the mother said. “She told me that she thought I was never going to be with her again and that she was going to have to live with another lady. She behaved like she was still in detention. She wouldn’t touch me, hug me, or kiss me.”
 
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