Trump immigrant family separation policy

Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Democrats also put the children in "cages". Were you ok with it then?
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Fudbucker said:
"Trump made separating families a matter of standard practice. Obama did not.

It’s not that no family was ever separated at the border under the Obama administration. But former Obama administration officials specify that families were separated only in particular circumstances — for instance, if a father was carrying drugs — that went above and beyond a typical case of illegal entry."
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/21/17488458/obama-immigration-policy-family-separation-border
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I was answering the post about the republican party being the party of putting kids in cages not about separation.
Most of the kids put in "cages" by the previous administration were unaccompanied minors.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And what is the point of this? There is a huge difference between deporting people with a hearing, and separating asylum seekers families at the border to send a message that there is no sanctuary here.

I get it Identify Theft is a victimless crime or something.
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My point was these types of things have always been occurring only we did not hear about them.

She was immediately separated from her family before any hearing. I am assuming she was sent back after a hearing but I don't know those details.
 
eeyore1954 said:
My point was these types of things have always been occurring only we did not hear about them.

She was immediately separated from her family before any hearing. I am assuming she was sent back after a hearing but I don't know those details.
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That's because it was not happening then due to an intentional policy of separation. The Trump administration specifically implemented a policy of family separation for purposes of deterrence. They also tried to use the policy as leverage to get the Democrats to agree to their immigration plans. This is all on record.
 
eeyore1954 said:
My point was these types of things have always been occurring only we did not hear about them.

She was immediately separated from her family before any hearing. I am assuming she was sent back after a hearing but I don't know those details.
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The thing is that is different from say someone who has broken no law at all like people seeking asylum. There seems to be some serious lack of details to figure out exactly what was going on.

Of course whenever any parent is sent to prison they are separated from their children. THe details matter.
 
ponderingturtle said:
The thing is that is different from say someone who has broken no law at all like people seeking asylum. There seems to be some serious lack of details to figure out exactly what was going on.

Of course whenever any parent is sent to prison they are separated from their children. THe details matter.
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Are any laws broken when someone is caught in the country illegally?
 
eeyore1954 said:
Democrats also put the children in "cages". Were you ok with it then?
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No.

The reason there even was that 2014 picture of immigrants in that large cage with the space blankets was because people were outraged then. And you can bet that wasn't Republicans or the alt-white that were outraged.
 
Bump. National cyber shields down, defense and security agencies say "light blinking red." Instead, Republican obsession with a Wall, while Republican farmers clamor for the missing cheap labor. Children in cages. When will Republicans ever show some spine? Cut and run, cut and run from facts. Wave them pink hankies!
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Bump. National cyber shields down, defense and security agencies say "light blinking red." Instead, Republican obsession with a Wall, while Republican farmers clamor for the missing cheap labor. Children in cages. When will Republicans ever show some spine? Cut and run, cut and run from facts. Wave them pink hankies!
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The thing is that IMO the GOP has this immigration thing at a sweet spot - for them.

The last thing that they want is to actually stem the flow of cheap labour. Too many industries rely on illegal immigrants who they can pay below market rate (and minimum wage) and with poor working conditions safe in the knowledge that their illegal status prevents them from complaining.

That said, a big hullabaloo about how strict they are being also serves the GOP well. It increases the sense of unease among illegal immigrants - making them even riper for exploitation - and it gives the GOP base assurances that they are working hard to keep brown people out of the country.

So this crackdown is having the desired effect. IMO it won't have a significant long-term impact on the number of illegal immigrants in the US but it will deny them a path to citizenship (important to stop them voting Democrat), keep them nicely exploitable and allow the GOP faithful to think that their representatives are doing a great job. :tinfoil

The WallTM is an excellent example of this kind of thing, functionally almost useless but symbolically very important. :rolleyes:
 
Hmm. This is tangentially related, but...

Survivors describe sexual abuse under ICE custody: 'He told me that I was going to be deported'

ICE, according to Cassie, claims that the number of reported assaults “is relatively low.” But according to advocacy group CIVIC last year, “Homeland Security received a total of 33,126 complaints of sexual and/or physical abuse from January 2010 to July 2016. Of those, only 225—.07 percent—have been investigated.” Last year, ICE even floated destroying records about immigrant abuse, and only backed down due to backlash.

More recently, Laura Monterrosa, a Salvadoran asylum seeker, said she was thrown into solitary confinement for speaking out about the abuse she suffered while at Hutto. “The ICE official went as far as telling her that he expected her to recant her claim to the media,” her advocates said, “or else she would be locked up again in solitary confinement indefinitely.” Laura was eventually freed.
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...Somehow, I don't especially expect the treatment to get much better without serious oversight changes.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Are any laws broken when someone is caught in the country illegally?
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Depends of course the current policy isn't even about people in the country illegally plenty of people who entered legally and applied for asylum are covered too.

Here is the thing, that may or may not have been something I would think excessive. I am reminded of the issues of Randi and his husband.

But it is still a far cry from the policies enacted by the current administration.
 
LSSBB said:
Considering it's a misdemeanor, what do we do with drivers who don't have insurance?
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And yet by definition a misdemeanor is any crime punishable by no more than one year in jail. So we are comfortable separating adults from their children for misdemeanors. Parenthood has never been a get our of jail free card.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Bump. National cyber shields down, defense and security agencies say "light blinking red." Instead, Republican obsession with a Wall, while Republican farmers clamor for the missing cheap labor. Children in cages. When will Republicans ever show some spine? Cut and run, cut and run from facts. Wave them pink hankies!
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And of course Trumps steel tariffs are costing american manufacturing jobs.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
No.

The reason there even was that 2014 picture of immigrants in that large cage with the space blankets was because people were outraged then. And you can bet that wasn't Republicans or the alt-white that were outraged.
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Another point that has been stated repeatedly - the immigration wave of 2014 was caused by unaccompanied minors, with a few exceptions for minors that were with clearly dangerous adults, and every effort was made to free them within 20 days - that was simply a disaster (a man-made one at that - and we can discuss drug gangs and the like, versus US weaponry being trafficked to Central America and the like later) that the US was unprepared to handle. A good part of the humanitarian system that Dolt 45 and his white supremacist pals undid in their gleeful haste to torture children (and I'll be clear that this is what they did) was put in place as a response to this crisis.

Also, pointing to Obama as a supposed left-wing open-borders guy is laughable, given that he was at the time known as the "Deporter in Chief". Again, the *why* of his decisions can be discussed later, but the what was well-known before this subject started, which makes it pretty obvious to me that this entire argument is made in bad faith.
 
Mumbles said:
this entire argument is made in bad faith.
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By the originators, at least. The gullible suckers who repeat it, on the other hand, are gullible suckers. There are a few very important similarities between how this works and how the YEC arguments work and why they're being accepted/repeated despite how fallacious or dishonest they may be.
 
Today in new lows: From Crib To Court: Trump Administration Summons Immigrant Infants

The Trump administration has summoned at least 70 children under 1 year old to immigration court for their own deportation proceedings since Oct. 1, according to new Justice Department data provided exclusively to Kaiser Health News.

These children, who may be staying with a sponsor or in a foster care arrangement, need frequent touching and bonding with a parent and naps every few hours, and some are of breastfeeding age, medical experts say. They’re unable to speak and still learning when it’s day versus night.

“For babies, the basics are really important. It’s the holding, the proper feeding, proper nurturing,” said Shadi Houshyar, who directs early childhood and child welfare initiatives at advocacy group Families USA.
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