TERFs crash London Pride

Information Analyst said:
And how representative are these lesbians? Most I know are too busy living their lives to be attending the meetings of the over-politicised minority.
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Isn't an over politicised minority what pride is really all about in its origin? It started with the gays wanting special treatment now it is the trans what next bisexuals?
 
sadhatter said:
They are doing no such thing.

Self identification does not involve other people, the problem comes in when you demand others agree to your self identification.

Then it becomes a matter of opinion.
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And of course tact and politeness. I think he looks like a Bill I will call him bill no matter how many times he claims his name is Matt. That is a simple matter of opinion.
 
3point14 said:
Got any statistics?

That could be all of them in the whole world all gathered in one place, whiich would make them a vanishingly small percentage. Or that could be a tiny, tiny portion of the whole.

Do you have any statistics? I'm being inundated with argument by anecdote here. You and Rolfe seem to be the primary standard bearers and you're both so sure it's an issue, but you've both only come with 'feelings' anecdotes and stuff you 'know' without showing how you know it.

Nothing I have seen so far constitutes evidence of a problem beyond a teeny, tiny group of loud idiots. There are a subset of loud idiots in any group, it's the nature of people. You've not shown that it's in any way a problem.


Again, as with all idiot subsets, I would recommend dealing with and prosecuting the subset as and when it's called for. The massive, and as far as I can see, unjustified, brush that you and Rolfe are using - from a position of no statistical information at all, is freaking me out when I'm on a skeptics forum.
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Yeah, must be hard for you. x

Perhaps you are unaware that women liberated themselves by coming together in sex-segregated groups and talking to each other about their experiences of being women living in a patriarchal world. They believed and valued their own experience of reality. They didn't need statistics to become aware of their collective experience as women.

It is an issue because woman-only spaces, institutions and relationships are being invaded by men, reversing gains that required decades of political struggle to achieve.
 
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Rolfe said:
It's a source of puzzlement to me how it is that we're told that non-gender-conforming men must be allowed access to all women's spaces because they would be in mortal danger if they ventured into a gents' lavatory, and yet the most vocal people asserting this are - men.

This thread and other discussions are dominated by (mostly but not exclusively straight) men lining up to attack women as bigots and haters for wanting to preserve their sex-designated spaces. Everything must be done for the comfort and convenience of our trans-identifying brothers. By women that is. Because men are such brutes that they can't possibly be accommodated within male accommodation.

But it's absolutely fine to insist that women accept any man who wants to enter their spaces, because these men can't possibly be brutes at all....

This is making my head spin.
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Again I agree with your point, mostly.

Said men are not doing it for other men, they are doing it to get laid. It's just not hip to not confirm to sjw standards. Same guys were wearing ed hardy, pink good shirts and switched right from rock to rap. Not because they like these things but because it was hip and would score them points.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I'm saying across the board "I don't want you near me because I'm scared of you" is wrong.

You have no more right to be scared of men as a group then of blacks or Muslims or gays.
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Dare you to say that in any group that is sjw focused irl.

I'd ask you to report back but you will be being yelled at for the next decade.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And of course tact and politeness. I think he looks like a Bill I will call him bill no matter how many times he claims his name is Matt. That is a simple matter of opinion.
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Please explain to me the differences between a bill and a mat, visually and anatomically. If you have a case id change my opinion.
 
JihadJane said:
Yeah, must be hard for you. x
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It'd be a lot less hard if you could come up with some actual, reasonable estimate of the level of risk based on actual statistics.

Cherry picked twitter posts and videos of idiots marching aren't that.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
sadhatter said:
Dare you to say that in any group that is sjw focused irl.

I'd ask you to report back but you will be being yelled at for the next decade.
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SJWs are your boogeyman, not mine.

I can point and laugh at the SJWs for talking about manspreading and stare rape and 36 genders still agree with them on other things.
 
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JihadJane said:
Humans are sexually dimorphic mammals.

Man = adult human male

Woman = adult human female
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You're adding synonyms but not defining them. What makes a person male or female? Organs? Chromosomes? Both? What about people born missing some organs, or with extra, or with them but undeveloped? What about XXY people and the like? You say 'adult'...is that chronological, chemical, some threshold state of physical development?

It's not as simple as M/F. Pretending it is is the ultimate source of the problem here.

Your options are to sit as judge and rule on every possible variation of human circumstance and decide what falls into each of these categories...or to understand that there's a spectrum and it doesn't matter what anybody is, only what they do.
 
TragicMonkey said:
You're adding synonyms but not defining them. What makes a person male or female? Organs? Chromosomes? Both? What about people born missing some organs, or with extra, or with them but undeveloped? What about XXY people and the like? You say 'adult'...is that chronological, chemical, some threshold state of physical development?

It's not as simple as M/F. Pretending it is is the ultimate source of the problem here.

Your options are to sit as judge and rule on every possible variation of human circumstance and decide what falls into each of these categories...or to understand that there's a spectrum and it doesn't matter what anybody is, only what they do.
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Go see my post on the topic instead of going for the low hanging fruit.
 
sadhatter said:
Please explain to me the differences between a bill and a mat, visually and anatomically. If you have a case id change my opinion.
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Easy you look like a Bill. Why should Bill object to being called Bill when he thinks his name is Matt?

This is a simple difference of opinion after all why make a big deal over it?
 
TragicMonkey said:
You're adding synonyms but not defining them. What makes a person male or female? Organs? Chromosomes? Both? What about people born missing some organs, or with extra, or with them but undeveloped? What about XXY people and the like? You say 'adult'...is that chronological, chemical, some threshold state of physical development?

It's not as simple as M/F. Pretending it is is the ultimate source of the problem here.

Your options are to sit as judge and rule on every possible variation of human circumstance and decide what falls into each of these categories...or to understand that there's a spectrum and it doesn't matter what anybody is, only what they do.
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Chromosomes. That a few people are born with XXY doesn't alter the definition of man and woman. The vast majority of humans are born either XX or XY, with no ambiguity.

There isn't much variation in the sex of humans. Something like 1 in 2,000 children is born with confusing genitals. No feminist is saying that they shouldn't enjoy exactly the same human rights as everyone else.

It matters that women can call themselves women and that this category does not include men. Otherwise it is impossible for women to organise politically as a class. People in any other category you can think of are welcome to organise themselves under the umbrella of that category. Feminists organise around issues that affect women. Lesbians organise around issues that affect lesbians.

Adult= fully grown or developed.

The "ultimate source of the problem" here is that SOME men are claiming that they can magically become women, often based on their feelings alone, and that they are then entitled to be recognised as women in all respects. Perhaps the ultimate problem here is that there are a lot of wounded men with narcissistic personality disorders!
 
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3point14 said:
It'd be a lot less hard if you could come up with some actual, reasonable estimate of the level of risk based on actual statistics.

Cherry picked twitter posts and videos of idiots marching aren't that.

I'm not holding my breath.
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The video contains no marching, BTW. I guess that means you didn't watch it.

The tweets are examples of "TERFs" being threatened with violence and/or death. If only one woman is raped and/or murdered or threatened with death by men in a community, it affects all women.

The problem of male violence has been evident for centuries. That is why men are regarded as risky. One never knows which one will be violent. Male violence is an ongoing problem.

I doubt if there are any statistics on transgender male violence, particularly because their crimes are legally reported as being crimes committed by women. They are "women", remember? The phenomenon of militant male transgender activists aggressively invading women's spaces is recent. It represents a very sudden backlash against feminist advances.

You are wise not to hold your breath, for biological reasons!
 
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sadhatter said:
Seems like if you wanted to actually know the answer you would have done that instead of adding a meaningless step of making someone else do it.

I found plenty, go try,prove me wrong.
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You asked me what happened when I did something I hadn't done. I call that manipulative. I simply asked you the same question in return.

I don't know what I'm supposed to be proving you wrong about, but I googled "Terf threatens trans activists" and all the links are about transgender activist violence against "TERFs".
 
JihadJane said:
Chromosomes. That a few people are born with XXY doesn't alter the definition of man and woman. The vast majority of humans are born either XX or XY, with no ambiguity.

There isn't much variation in the sex of humans. Something like 1 in 2,000 children is born with confusing genitals. No feminist is saying that they shouldn't enjoy exactly the same human rights as everyone else.

It matters that women can call themselves women and that this category does not include men. Otherwise it is impossible for women to organise politically as a class. People in any other category you can think of are welcome to organise themselves under the umbrella of that category. Feminists organise around issues that affect women. Lesbians organise around issues that affect lesbians.

Adult= fully grown or developed.

The "ultimate source of the problem" here is that SOME men are claiming that they can magically become women, often based on their feelings alone, and that they are then entitled to be recognised as women in all respects. Perhaps the ultimate problem here is that there are a lot of wounded men with narcissistic personality disorders!
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*shrug* seems like a weird reason
 
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