• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

All things Trump + Russia Part 4

Well, logger (may God rest his merry soul) said that Trump had to be nice to Putin because you had to keep "bad Actors" on-side. So therefore it makes sense that Trump is friendly with enemies of the US and unfriendly with friends of the US.
 
acbytesla said:
The US has wanted Assad gone as much as we wanted Saddam and Qadaffi gone. All of which were/are ruthless violent and cruel undemocratic leaders. The Russians backed Assad and simply don't give a damn about how many people he murders as long as it provides stability as well as money.
Click to expand...

jimbob said:
I disagree. Syria is in a strategic location in the Middle East and provides a warm water base outside the Black Sea.

Russia wants a client state there
Click to expand...

Syria has been a Russian ally for years. As for the Russian Naval base..... maybe. The shortage of warm water bases has always been something of an issue for Russia. Nevertheless, I think that they, just like the US, even more so because of proximity are interested in stability with all the Muslim nations to their South.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Well, logger (may God rest his merry soul) said that Trump had to be nice to Putin because you had to keep "bad Actors" on-side. So therefore it makes sense that Trump is friendly with enemies of the US and unfriendly with friends of the US.
Click to expand...

That thinking is simply idiotic. Why improve relations with Russia when Russia hasn't come to heel? They haven't budged on election meddling, they still have troops occupying the sovereign territory of two neighbors, and they tried to murder two people in the UK. Let them have improved relations when they change their behavior.
 
magellan said:
Are you able to hear yourself?

"The russians spent thousands of dollars on facebook ads! We are under attack!!!!!" "Putin once said if he could choose he would prefer the one who didn't threaten to shoot down russian planes while they are fighting US armed terrorists - how dare he!"

"The US has wanted Assad gone as much as we wanted Saddam and Qadaffi gone." (Actually I don't blame you for Quadaffi, that was the french - just as an aside)

That's not for you to decide! Porochenko has been "killing his own people" in the donbas for 4 years. Why don't you want him gone?
Click to expand...

Oh nonsense. And I am not deciding. I am saying that you are oversimpifying what has been happening in Syria. Russia was aiding the very brutal undemocratic Assad who was and is trying to murder any and all opposition which include both members of ISIS and pro-democracy forces which the US was supporting. Assad was regularly using chemical weapons on entire towns.

There are a lot of bad actors and Putin is far worse than Porochenko. I don't blame Russia for trying to influence elections abroad. No, that's not true. I blame them, but it is to be expected.

Nobody wants ISIS, but should we really be supporting leaders like Assad? I don't think so.

What I don't get about Trump is his fierce loyalty to Putin when Trump isn't loyal to anyone? Trump has started absurd fights with all of America's most staunch allies and yet is kissing Putin's ass. Why?
 
Craig4 said:
That thinking is simply idiotic. Why improve relations with Russia when Russia hasn't come to heel? They haven't budged on election meddling, they still have troops occupying the sovereign territory of two neighbors, and they tried to murder two people in the UK. Let them have improved relations when they change their behavior.
Click to expand...

Trump says Putin is fine. So Putin is obviously fine. Everything else is fake news.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1015568931636088832

There's a passage from the article embedded in the tweet.
Click to expand...


@about_scott said:
Putin playing Trump like a fiddle. Building him up with words while trashing those who have damaged his ego. Even using Trump terminology and personal terms like 'friendship'.
Click to expand...
@NaomioftheNorth said:
His entanglements w/Russia have had decades to mature.
Click to expand...


I wonder now how much of Trump's terminology in this context actually came from Putin and his representatives...
 
OK, so we have this defense by Giuliani:
NYT: In May, CNN’s Dana Bash interviewed Giuliani, and she posited that the “Spygate” saga was “an intentional strategy to undermine the investigation, knowing that they, the investigators, the special counsel, it’s their policy not to talk. But you are very free to and are very aggressive about doing so.”

Giuliani responded in part:

“Of course, we have to do it in defending the president. We are defending — to a large extent, remember, Dana, we are defending here, it is for public opinion, because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach, not impeach. Members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. So, our jury is the American — as it should be — is the American people.”
Click to expand...

I realize the GOP flip-flops 180º on any issue, solely depending on whether they are defending white supremacy or attacking some convenient target, so no one should expect any sort of consistency. Yet I still wish for it! The above would normally rank as "left-wing direct-democracy drivel; the US is a Republic" if on the attack. In defense, they are happy to call for mob rule. Same deal applies to all the Trump references to "the 2ndA people." Sickos, through and through.

I hate low-down, lying fascists. Wars of aggression, torture, child abuse, peeing in every pool they can find 24/7/365... Makes one wish (sigh) one could use some of their own medicine on them. Say, daily, one per state.
 
WaPo: Update: And yet the White House still doesn't seem willing to totally concede the point. In a statement, White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters refers to "the alleged hacking."

"Today’s charges include no allegations of knowing involvement by anyone on the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election result," Walters said. "This is consistent with what we have been saying all along.”
Click to expand...

How manly. Republicans sure are the "tough" guys, lying down before enemies at the first chance to throw themselves to the ground. Embarrassing.
 
"Today’s charges include no allegations of knowing involvement by anyone on the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election result,"
Click to expand...

Ooh, now that's a lie. It says that senior members (note - plural, not singular) of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with Russian conspirators, and that they discussed stolen documents. Stone is obviously one of them, given that he's talked publicly about being in contact with Guccifer 2.0. I'd expect him to be the first indictment on conspiracy charges for a member of Trump's team. Don Jr. seems like a fair bet for another.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Ooh, now that's a lie. It says that senior members (note - plural, not singular) of the Trump campaign were in regular contact with Russian conspirators, and that they discussed stolen documents. Stone is obviously one of them, given that he's talked publicly about being in contact with Guccifer 2.0. I'd expect him to be the first indictment on conspiracy charges for a member of Trump's team. Don Jr. seems like a fair bet for another.
Click to expand...

Where was that in this, in a way that actually makes the statement that was made a lie?

Bear in mind, of course, that "false fronts" are involved here.

Either way, for the fun of it, here's a take on it from the Daily Kos.

New indictments show Russian hacking effort was large, intense, sustained—and GOP supported
 
Last edited:
‘Warning Lights Are Blinking Red,’ Top Intelligence Officer Says of Russian Attacks
WASHINGTON — The nation’s top intelligence officer [Ed.: Trump's man] said on Friday that the persistent danger of Russian cyberattacks today was akin to the warnings the United States had of stepped-up terror threats ahead of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

That note of alarm sounded by Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, came on the same day that 12 Russian agents were indicted on charges of hacking the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Mr. Coats said those indictments illustrated Moscow’s continuing strategy to undermine the United States’ democracy and erode its institutions.

“The warning lights are blinking red again,” Mr. Coats said as he cautioned of cyberthreats. “Today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack.”
Click to expand...

Any of our resident Trump apologists care to step up to the plate and explain how not responding to this is not willful treason? Hmmm? Sorry, not possible.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom