Cont: Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 3

[SOdhner]

So cozy and comfy talking in the abstract.

You said that, as these things go, the claim that this is a scam was "wild" and "increasingly fantastical". I was just pointing out that quite to the contrary it doesn't involve anything implausible. This requires talking about it in the abstract because I'm not actually evaluating it to determine if this particular case is a scam, just to see if that claim is "wild" or "fantastical".

You implied that these claims make them bad skeptics, but I'm just here trying to do what any good skeptic should do - objectively assess the situation. This seems to offend you.

Look at the history.

Okay cool, we can do that. Do they have a history of bringing things to market successfully? Because that would be points in their favor and would make claims of a scam way less plausible. Do they have a history of delays and problems and missed deadlines? Because that would match what known scams have done and so would make a scam more plausible.

Look at the profiles of the people involved. These are real people and scientists here, which you so glibly infer are morally corrupt and bought off to tell lies.

I'm saying it's not "wild" or "fantastical" to suggest that someone could be paid to endorse something even if they know it's not real or not good. It happens all the time. Do you think it doesn't?

Get a ethical grip man.

I think it's funny that you're saying I'm being unethical just because I said sometimes people do dishonest things for money.

 

[Reality Check]

Ramanujachary advertising BLP is not evidence of hydrino signatures

RC: This is what I have in mind.

This is what I pointed out:
25 May 2018 markie: A lie about "hydrino signatures" over years of experiments by Prof Ramanujachary at Rowan University.
25 May 2018 markie: A lie that Prof Ramanujachary did independent experiments [detecting those "hydrino signatures"].

If Ramanujachary were confident about having real evidence of the existence of hydrinos then he would have published his work in a scientific journal. Instead we have "verification reports" used as ads for BLP products that have never got to market.

There are no "hydrino signatures" in "Synthesis and Characterization Alkali Metal Salts Containing Trapped Hydrino" (2009). That would be signatures that could only be produced by hydrinos.
The text has "BLP attributes" and "BLP has made claims". The actual results were NMR results similar to those reported by BLP + neutron diffraction studies that indicate the possibility of trapped unknown atoms.
Perhaps more importantly you are confirming the "over years of experiments" part of your lie - 2009 is not 2018!

28 May 2018 markie: Ramanujachary advertising BLP is not evidence of hydrino signatures or his years of independent experiments.
What that advertising is evidence of is gullibility since he should have known about the physical impossibility of hydrinos, years of failure and the deluded book by Mills.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

Of course I remember the interdigitating gears. That was really the first iteration of the SunCell concept - which involved exploding metal hydrate pellets or slurry on the rotating gear mechanism which carried the high electrical current. It's all still on Youtube. There was no MHD involved then however.

Markie, listen up. Despite your hopeful assertions that "there was no MHD involved", YES THERE BLOODY WELL WAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvcCzttXr5k A January 2014 Mills interview.

14:30 to 15:10. MHD in the graphics and "MagnetoHydrodynamics" in the speech. By Mills.

MHD was central to that version of the show, and Mills produced at least one research paper on the subject.

So let's have no more ex post facto historical editing.

Although I will admit that my memory was faulty: the claim was not a megawatt in a cubic meter - it was 10 megawatts in a square foot. Whatever that means.

 

[markie]

Markie, listen up. Despite your hopeful assertions that "there was no MHD involved", YES THERE BLOODY WELL WAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvcCzttXr5k A January 2014 Mills interview.

14:30 to 15:10. MHD in the graphics and "MagnetoHydrodynamics" in the speech. By Mills.

MHD was central to that version of the show, and Mills produced at least one research paper on the subject.

So let's have no more ex post facto historical editing.

Although I will admit that my memory was faulty: the claim was not a megawatt in a cubic meter - it was 10 megawatts in a square foot. Whatever that means.

Right you are, my apologies. For a brief while at the very beginning of the Suncell type of reaction Mills did consider MHD to harness the energy of moving ions from the energetic explosion. Then he changed track and went to photovoltaics because with further analysis he realized most of the energy release was photonic, not kinetic. (I talked about this in an earlier post but had a memory lapse.) Now he's going back to MHD, but in a different way.

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Your incorrect assumption is that this is about oxidizing metals. It is not. In fact oxidation has proven a hindrance to the hydrino formation environment.

Of course we are not talking about an over unity device. The SunCell would be no more over unity than an internal combustion engine. But if nature provides hydrocarbons to burn, we take them and extract their potential energy. If nature provides Hydrogen atoms that have not yet fallen below ground state, we take them and extract their potential energy. Simple.

Hahahah playing both sides now? First proclaiming how elegant it would be to close the system. (which makes it an over-unity devise), then when anyone points out that makes it impossible, you immediately backtrack and pretend you never made those claims!

You are correct about one thing though. The sun cell is no more over-unity than ICE. The primary difference being the fuel used. Mills is burning metals with water. Something that few people know even exists, but a thing all Marine engineers must learn to get licensed. (we know about welding too so the re-purposed welding machine doesn't fool us for a second either.) And we are even taught about hydrogen embrittlement of metals, something not commonly known either.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100816114831.htm

So when Mills starts attributing ordinary processes and reactions to a mythical hydrino, it might fool some few people, but there are plenty more like myself who laugh at the childish misdirection.

Hocus pocus mumbo jumbo. Or as someone else pointed out, technobabble worthy of Star Trek, but certainly not real science.

 

[markie]

This is what I pointed out:
25 May 2018 markie: A lie about "hydrino signatures" over years of experiments by Prof Ramanujachary at Rowan University.
25 May 2018 markie: A lie that Prof Ramanujachary did independent experiments [detecting those "hydrino signatures"].

If Ramanujachary were confident about having real evidence of the existence of hydrinos then he would have published his work in a scientific journal. Instead we have "verification reports" used as ads for BLP products that have never got to market.

There are no "hydrino signatures" in "Synthesis and Characterization Alkali Metal Salts Containing Trapped Hydrino" (2009). That would be signatures that could only be produced by hydrinos.
The text has "BLP attributes" and "BLP has made claims". The actual results were NMR results similar to those reported by BLP + neutron diffraction studies that indicate the possibility of trapped unknown atoms.
Perhaps more importantly you are confirming the "over years of experiments" part of your lie - 2009 is not 2018!

28 May 2018 markie: Ramanujachary advertising BLP is not evidence of hydrino signatures or his years of independent experiments.
What that advertising is evidence of is gullibility since he should have known about the physical impossibility of hydrinos, years of failure and the deluded book by Mills.

To repeat: it is not Chary's place to claim they are hydrinos. He is claiming that the results are consistent with Mills hydrino theory, and that there are no known compounds in the literature that produce those kinds of results. Frankly I'm surprised you don't get this by now.

If you think Rowan worked on this only in 2009, you are mistaken. They've worked on this for years.

 

[markie]

Hahahah playing both sides now? First proclaiming how elegant it would be to close the system. (which makes it an over-unity devise), then when anyone points out that makes it impossible, you immediately backtrack and pretend you never made those claims!

You are correct about one thing though. The sun cell is no more over-unity than ICE. The primary difference being the fuel used. Mills is burning metals with water. Something that few people know even exists, but a thing all Marine engineers must learn to get licensed. (we know about welding too so the re-purposed welding machine doesn't fool us for a second either.) And we are even taught about hydrogen embrittlement of metals, something not commonly known either.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100816114831.htm

So when Mills starts attributing ordinary processes and reactions to a mythical hydrino, it might fool some few people, but there are plenty more like myself who laugh at the childish misdirection.

Hocus pocus mumbo jumbo. Or as someone else pointed out, technobabble worthy of Star Trek, but certainly not real science.

By a closed system, of course I mean that the silver and the catalyst is all retained and recycled within the sealed vessel, rather than vented out. It doesn't mean that hydrogen is not added as fuel!

Too much water quenches the reaction btw. In fact they don't use water directly anymore.

Hydrogen embrittlement? You keep bringing that up, but I fail to see your point.
Elaborate if you wish.

 

[Reality Check]

A "consistent with Mills hydrino theory" lie

He is claiming that the results are consistent with Mills hydrino theory,

28 May 2018 markie: A "consistent with Mills hydrino theory" lie.
The validation report has "consistent with BLP NMR results". Mills does not have a theory - he has ignorant delusions. Those delusions are described in the report. Various BLP fantasies are mentioned. I do not recall amy prediction from Mills delusions about NMR results in his book.

28 May 2018 markie: Repeating a "They've worked on this for years" lie does not make it true.
The evidence that you have given is that Ramanujachary has not run independent experiments over years resulting in "hydrino signatures". The closest was one set of 2009 reports consistent with BLP NMR results. Nothing unique to Mills delusions.

25 May 2018 markie: A lie about "hydrino signatures" over years of experiments by Prof Ramanujachary at Rowan University.
25 May 2018 markie: A lie that Prof Ramanujachary did independent experiments [detecting those "hydrino signatures"].
28 May 2018 markie: Ramanujachary advertising BLP is not evidence of hydrino signatures or his years of independent experiments.

Many items of ignorance, delusions and lies in Mills book and a paper

Items of ignorance and some lies from markie from his blind faith in Mills.
This includes 25 July 2017 markie: The "same" spectra + the continuum spectra are another different example of Mills incompetence, delusion or lying and the 2012 paper
Interpretation of EUV emissions observed by Mills et al.

An explanation of the so-called hydrino continuum emissions proposed by Mills and Lu, most recently in [Eur. Phys. J. D 64, 65 (2011)], is presented using conventional atomic, plasma, and discharge physics. It is argued that the observed EUV emissions during their pulsed discharges originate from transitions in ions sputtered or evaporated from the electrodes. Such an interpretation removes their justification for the introduction of hydrino particles.

If Mills delusions do not have EUV emissions then NMR results are at least dubious.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

Right you are, my apologies.

Accepted.

For a brief while at the very beginning of the Suncell type of reaction Mills did consider MHD to harness the energy of moving ions from the energetic explosion. Then he changed track and went to photovoltaics because with further analysis he realized most of the energy release was photonic, not kinetic.

This has two problems. First, you (like Mills) have glided serenely over the issue of why the approach didn't work in the first place, and instead the approach went into the Memory Hole while the new, improved, SunCell reactor took the stage. Sticking to the "gear wheel" model, your statement indicates a dual exercise of incompetence.

1) He didn't do the basic analysis to determine where the power was, but went with what seemed cool. He did models, gave interviews, even submitted a patent application - all based on his own lack of competence in analyzing the most basic aspects of the process.

2) He then went went with a "photonic" approach which makes even less sense than MHD. If photonic power conversion were to be tried directly, impingement of supersonic metal vapor on the conversion cells would get an opaque layer within seconds. Did Mills realize this? Apparently not. If you can find a quote by Mills which does deal with this, I stand corrected. But not until.

Is this sort of debacle supposed to be impressive (in a good way)?

Now he's going back to MHD, but in a different way.

Different how?

 

[Hans]

Different how?

It will require a massive amount of money, at least twice as much as before, to achieve....nothing, again.

 

[Hans]

Militarization of the hydrino reaction will be very difficult.

Do you think making an authoritative statement about an imaginary thing you know nothing about is plausible? Really? LOL

 

[Hans]

Look at the history.

We have it clearly says SCAM

Look at the profiles of the people involved.

Mills delusions on paper and in book point to SCAM

Get a ethical grip man.

Good advice you might want to consider doing it yourself shilling for a scam is not ethical.

 

[Hans]

Of course it "produces power in massive excess". That's the whole idea. The silver is not just vaporized, it is ionized by the eUV radiation given off by hydrino formation. You think it's a walk in the park to get everything working without something going wrong. It is not. Mills details some of the challenges in his quarterly report.

Yet five years from now you'll be pretending this was 'progress'.

 

[Hans]

The SunCell environment and mechanism has come a long way since then. Much more elegant.

...................elegance in not working you mean? I believe the appropriate word for that is 'nonfunctional crap'?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Mills has demonstrated many hydrino reaction environments over the years. None has met the threshold of achieving true prototype status, meaning something that could be seriously considered as a preproduction model for the marketplace.
In all cases but one before the Suncell they did not have sufficient power density to make it worthwhile. Big size, low power. In one case they had the power density but the reactants could not be reliably recycled, so the reaction could not be sustained for a reasonable length of time.

You didn't answer my question.

I'll take your answer to mean that you will count unverified self-reporting and/or ambiguous YouTube videos as him having "demonstrated" his claims to be true.

This time they have the power density and, presumably, long term running capacity. A true test of the latter still awaits a closed system. They've had it running for half and hour at high power, but the system was not closed; silver vapour was actively vented out until the molten silver ran dry as I understand it.

You didn't answer either of my questions.

Why did Mills claim his previous models were ready for the marketplace if they weren't? What makes you believe him this time when he makes the same claim?

 

[JeanTate]

To repeat: it is not Chary's place to claim they are hydrinos. He is claiming that the results are consistent with Mills hydrino theory, and that there are no known compounds in the literature that produce those kinds of results. Frankly I'm surprised you don't get this by now.

If you think Rowan worked on this only in 2009, you are mistaken. They've worked on this for years.

And yet no Nobel Prize?

What goes through the mind of a competent scientist who realizes they have, in their own labs, all but proven a revolution in physics, the kind which comes once a century or three? And who then does nothing, for many years? What does he (they’re all he’s) tell his family and friends who ask him about his work? What about his colleagues, who do research in the same labs? His students?

In ten+ years, not a single person among these hundreds has been curious enough to do their own investigation, with a near certainty of being able to get a significant part of the fame and fortune which would inevitably follow from alerting the world to such an incredible revolution, possibly a Nobel?

Maybe someone could get a Nobel by studying and reporting on the incredible psychological characteristics of such amazing scientists!

 

[The Man]

By a closed system, of course I mean that the silver and the catalyst is all retained and recycled within the sealed vessel, rather than vented out. It doesn't mean that hydrogen is not added as fuel!

Too much water quenches the reaction btw. In fact they don't use water directly anymore.

Hydrogen embrittlement? You keep bringing that up, but I fail to see your point.
Elaborate if you wish.

Unless water is no longer the catalyst, then yes they still use "water directly" as that catalyst. Particularity if still putting it into the silver first, where it wasn't before.

 

[Horatius]

Right you are, my apologies. For a brief while at the very beginning of the Suncell type of reaction Mills did consider MHD to harness the energy of moving ions from the energetic explosion. Then he changed track and went to photovoltaics because with further analysis he realized most of the energy release was photonic, not kinetic. (I talked about this in an earlier post but had a memory lapse.) Now he's going back to MHD, but in a different way.

I just figured it out! Mills is the reincarnation of Admiral Nagumo! The man can't decide what he wants to do, so he keeps changing his mind, and ends up not actually doing anything at all!

 

[markie]

28 May 2018 markie: A "consistent with Mills hydrino theory" lie.
The validation report has "consistent with BLP NMR results". Mills does not have a theory - he has ignorant delusions. Those delusions are described in the report. Various BLP fantasies are mentioned. I do not recall amy prediction from Mills delusions about NMR results in his book.

28 May 2018 markie: Repeating a "They've worked on this for years" lie does not make it true.
The evidence that you have given is that Ramanujachary has not run independent experiments over years resulting in "hydrino signatures". The closest was one set of 2009 reports consistent with BLP NMR results. Nothing unique to Mills delusions.

25 May 2018 markie: A lie about "hydrino signatures" over years of experiments by Prof Ramanujachary at Rowan University.
25 May 2018 markie: A lie that Prof Ramanujachary did independent experiments [detecting those "hydrino signatures"].
28 May 2018 markie: Ramanujachary advertising BLP is not evidence of hydrino signatures or his years of independent experiments.

Many items of ignorance, delusions and lies in Mills book and a paper

Items of ignorance and some lies from markie from his blind faith in Mills.
This includes 25 July 2017 markie: The "same" spectra + the continuum spectra are another different example of Mills incompetence, delusion or lying and the 2012 paper
Interpretation of EUV emissions observed by Mills et al.

If Mills delusions do not have EUV emissions then NMR results are at least dubious.

You could always read a more recent experiment by Mills et al at
https://www.brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/EUV-Mechanism-051817.pdf

Page 8:

The electron-beam triggered a high voltage pulsed discharge at a repetition rate of 5 Hz. The discharge was also self-triggered to determine the influence of the electron-beam on the spectral emission, and the electron-beam triggered repetition rate was varied between 1 Hz and 5 Hz to determine if the electrode metal was the source of the continuum by varying the electrode temperature and vaporization rate.

Spoiler alert: the continuum had little to do with the vaporization rate of the electrode metal, just another way of dispatching Phelp's theory that the 'quasi' continuum was there as a result of high Z electrode sputtering rather than hydrino formation.

So Mills' and others results from: eUV spectroscopy, X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy, X-ray diffraction, Mossbauer spectroscopy, time of flight secondary ion mass spectroscopy, electrospray-ionization-time-of-flight-mass-spectroscopy, , Raman spectroscopy, Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy, nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy, and various calorimetric studies are quite good thank you.

 

[markie]

Accepted.



This has two problems. First, you (like Mills) have glided serenely over the issue of why the approach didn't work in the first place, and instead the approach went into the Memory Hole while the new, improved, SunCell reactor took the stage. Sticking to the "gear wheel" model, your statement indicates a dual exercise of incompetence.

1) He didn't do the basic analysis to determine where the power was, but went with what seemed cool. He did models, gave interviews, even submitted a patent application - all based on his own lack of competence in analyzing the most basic aspects of the process.

2) He then went went with a "photonic" approach which makes even less sense than MHD. If photonic power conversion were to be tried directly, impingement of supersonic metal vapor on the conversion cells would get an opaque layer within seconds. Did Mills realize this? Apparently not. If you can find a quote by Mills which does deal with this, I stand corrected. But not until.

Is this sort of debacle supposed to be impressive (in a good way)?



Different how?

You have hardly read the experiments, and yet you what to know the juicy details of why Mills didn't pursue MDH originally and went the photovoltaic route, and then back again? Please. Both approaches have their merits and drawbacks. You're treating it in a binary way.

Of course Mills was painfully aware of vapour deposition on photovoltaics. That's why he would enclose the reaction with its vapours in a dome, which would blackbody radiate.

About Mills plans on the current MHD design, I have only read hints that it's a novel departure from the typical implementation.