Elizabeth Warren refuses to take DNA test

[Stacyhs]

It's pathetic but unsurprising to see some people trying to rationalize Trump's racist use of "Pocahontas". Trump was right when he said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."

I'm blonde and blue-eyed and my 5X great-grandmother was a Creek Indian as documented in the 1860 census.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

... Its absolutely meant to be mocking but mocking of her for actions she has specifically taken not for her ethnicity. Mocking her for adopting the mantle of a minority when to all outward appearances she is part of the majority.

Fine. You are down with bullying.

As for confusing appearance with genetics, well, further textbook reading is normally recommended.

... I don't think making fun of a white person's pretense at minority status is racist.

Not a pretense, a learned family history, and IIRC not exploited for sympathy/career/cash. Yes, not racist; bullying. See above.

 

[ahhell]

Ridicule of a sitting politician is now bullying?

 

[Upchurch]

No, I meant irony, "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result." Its not that she can't be part Native American, its that its less likely and that it was very unlikely to have impacted her life much.

Less likely than what?

If one believe the possibility of her having Native American ancestry is deliberately contrary to what one expects, that says more about that person's understanding of genetics and heredity than anything about Warren.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IronicNickname

It is not an ironic nickname. It would be ironic if there was absolutely no possibility of her having Native American ancestry. It's a mocking nickname used because she has said she has Native American ancestry, used in a derogatory way, no less.

Look. Even you will admit that much:

Its absolutely meant to be mocking but mocking of her for actions she has specifically taken not for her ethnicity.

However, what actions has she taken? She filled out a form more than a decade (decades?) ago. That's it? That is what she did to deserve to be mocked?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Haven't you ever heard of irony? It would be plainly racist if they actually thought she had any Native ancestry. They're using it to highlight the humor/irony of a blonde haired blued eyed women claiming Native American Heritage.
I am..... confused that this is even a question as its such an obvious use of irony. Do you just think conservatives are so stupid as to be incapable of such sophistication?

Are you saying that native american's can't have blonde hair and blue eyes?

 

[PhantomWolf]

I am amused and frustrated by this thread. The whole thing is stupid. If you think its a big deal that she claimed native American ancestry, your hopelessly partisan. If you think calling a white women that claimed native american ancestry Pocahontas is racist or a big deal, you are also hopelessly partisan. The inability to understand the irony of that nickname, either you are hopelessly partisan or hopelessly socially inept.

This has always been about a women who looks about as Native American as.....Jane Krawkoski claiming that she was Native American(and getting some advantage from her minority status.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_White_(Unbreakable_Kimmy_Schmidt)

You really seem to be suggesting that you can tell is someone is native american purely by looking at them.

 

[PhantomWolf]

No, I meant irony, "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result." Its not that she can't be part Native American, its that its less likely and that it was very unlikely to have impacted her life much. It certainly wouldn't have impacted her life in the way it would someone that looks more stereotypically Native American or had a more stereotypical Native American name.

Again you seem to be of the believe that outward appearance is an indicator of something.

As to how it has affected her, has she ever claimed that she was negatively affected, or sought out assistance because of it?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IronicNickname

Its absolutely meant to be mocking but mocking of her for actions she has specifically taken not for her ethnicity. Mocking her for adopting the mantle of a minority when to all outward appearances she is part of the majority.

This a bit of a thread cross over but I'm amused that I was mocked for my over sensitivity to racism in a thread for suggesting that Rabbi Jokes are often racist because they depend on racist steretypes of Jews unlike priest/pastor jokes that mostly just trade on missuse or misunderstanding of religious authority but here I'm defending racism because I don't think making fun of a white person's pretense at minority status is racist.

Do you think that this person should be ridiculed for claiming native american blood?

 

[Upchurch]

This has always been about a women who looks about as Native American as.....Jane Krawkoski claiming that she was Native American(and getting some advantage from her minority status.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_White_(Unbreakable_Kimmy_Schmidt)

Are you saying that native american's can't have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Here's the deal thing with Jane Krawkoski's Kimmy Schmidt character: It is ironic because that character's parents, not many generations removed ancestors, are full-blooded Native Americans who gave birth to the whitest, most innately privileged, of characters. That's something that actually is impossible and that is what makes it ironic.

That isn't even close to what Warren has claimed and that's why the name-calling isn't ironic. It's arguably satirical, but even that is a bit of a stress. Mostly, it's just beating up a straw man.

 

[phiwum]

What I find interesting in this is the incredibly weird racism on display.

On the one hand, they delight in the opportunity to indulge in the racist nickname "Pocahontas", but then they turn around and try to claim she isn't even Native at all. So, they're going out of their way to use what is, to them, the incorrect racist epithet.

That's some truly convoluted "logic", there.

Nah, I get that. They're claiming she's adopting the mantle of Native American heritage, which they derisively identify with her pretending to be Pocahontas.

No different than when I disparage my know-it-all son by calling him Einstein.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I am amused and frustrated by this thread. The whole thing is stupid. If you think its a big deal that she claimed native American ancestry, your hopelessly partisan. If you think calling a white women that claimed native american ancestry Pocahontas is racist or a big deal, you are also hopelessly partisan. The inability to understand the irony of that nickname, either you are hopelessly partisan or hopelessly socially inept.

This has always been about a women who looks about as Native American as.....Jane Krawkoski claiming that she was Native American(and getting some advantage from her minority status.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_White_(Unbreakable_Kimmy_Schmidt)

You appear to be confirming that this is really an attack on "identity politics." If she claimed to be 1/32nd French, would you mock her as Joan of Arc simply because she doesn't look French to you? I doubt it; your concern seems to the unfounded worry that she got "some advantage" from claiming to be 1/32nd Cherokee.

Demagogues like Trump exploit bigotry and prejudice against ethnic groups, but they also exploit resentment.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Hey this could be fun. Next we could ridicle this woman for not looking Puerto Rican enough.

I mean, gee, if they don't look like the stereotype, how can it be racist, right?

 

[phiwum]

Agreed. His use of the word Pocahontas is not racist. He is not putting down anyone's race, just poking fun at her.

Just to be clear, when I wrote the above post, I didn't mean the use of "Pocahontas" wasn't fundamentally racist. It surely is. The only female Native American that came to Trump's mind was essentially one out of a Disney cartoon (yes, yes, there was a historical Pocahontas, but no one really believes that Trump was thinking of that figure).

 

[phiwum]

It is specifically used to mock her, because everyone knows she is a lying little phony squaw. I can use those racist Indian terms since I do have actual Cherokee squaw blood.

Cherokees didn't call their women "squaws" you know.

Even if you do have Cherokee blood (and when shall we see the DNA test?), you are exposing ignorance of your heritage.

 

[logger]

Sorry, I don't buy it. It's like people who say, 'I'm not a racist, I have black friends'. I've read enough if your posts to see who you are. We're all dirty bleeding heart libs because we care about discrimination and racism. That's fine, by your words and deeds, ye shall be known.

It exposes what your side and Warren leading the charge. She or anyone on the left doesn’t give a rip about racism, leftists only give lip service to it, just like they always do. If you truly cared about racism, you wouldn’t be calling everything on the right racist, you’re clearly using it to further an agenda.

I actually do have black friends, they’re more conservative than me and they love Jesus.

 

[Border Reiver]

It exposes what your side and Warren leading the charge. She or anyone on the left doesn’t give a rip about racism, leftists only give lip service to it, just like they always do. If you truly cared about racism, you wouldn’t be calling everything on the right racist, you’re clearly using it to further an agenda.

When the politicians and pundits leading the right use the politics of "fear the other" to further their agenda - it is correct to refer to the right as racist.

You've got a president claiming that an American born judge can't fairly judge because his parents were born elsewhere.

You've got a president stating that there are "very fine people" amongst neo-nazis and white supremecists.

The Secretary of Housing and Urban Development is trying to further the narrative that black men are violent, stupid thugs, but can be saved by Jesus, able to reform and perform wonderfully by lying about his past.

You've got a president claiming that the birth certificate of his predecessor was faked.

Your government won't grant statehood to its overseas territories based on an early 20th century case that says they are unable to understand Anglo-Saxon law.

You've got a president that pardons a criminal for contempt of a court order to stop discriminating against Latinos.

And your president likes to use racist names for political opponents

And it's the right wing that is being discriminated against? Tell you what, stop acting in a racist manner, and call out the bad behaviour of your leaders.

 

[Toontown]

It's pathetic but unsurprising to see some people trying to rationalize Trump's racist use of "Pocahontas". Trump was right when he said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."

I'm blonde and blue-eyed and my 5X great-grandmother was a Creek Indian as documented in the 1860 census.

Two of my extended family are offspring of a caucasian mother and a native father. I don't know whether the father was 100% native, but he looked native. The offspring look caucasian. One is blonde with blue eyes and fair skin.

 

[Delvo]

...a white women... a women...

A womAn.

 

[Darat]

It is specifically used to mock her, because everyone knows she is a lying little phony squaw. I can use those racist Indian terms since I do have actual Cherokee squaw blood.

You'll be attaching your DNA proof of this?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[acbytesla]

It exposes what your side and Warren leading the charge. She or anyone on the left doesn’t give a rip about racism, leftists only give lip service to it, just like they always do. If you truly cared about racism, you wouldn’t be calling everything on the right racist, you’re clearly using it to further an agenda.

I actually do have black friends, they’re more conservative than me and they love Jesus.

Bullcrap! It was the Democrats who passed the Civil Rights Acts. There is a reason that 90+ percent of African Americans vote Democrat. We're not marrying white woman immigrants and trying to throw out immigrants of color like your President.

And who cares if you know a few blacks that love the fairy tale Jesus? That doesn't change the racism inherent among a large portion of Trump supporters. It doesn't make posts denigrating Native Americans any less racist.

 

[applecorped]

Elizabeth Warren could be America's first Native American president!!!