School shooting Florida

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bruto said:
Unfortunately, though, that seems a rule that cannot easily be enforced without an intrusion that might well be worse than a law that disallows guns in the home at all.....
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I've suggested how it might be brought in without checks......by punishing breeches which result in a child getting possession of the gun, an intruder getting possession of the gun, or the gun being discharged indoors (other than at an intruder). If you knew that you were going to be in serious trouble if, say, a burglar stole your gun, you'd be careful what you did with it.
 
MikeG said:
Indeed. But also to make the point that things aren't perfect here, before we get accused of being holier-than-thou by the gun nuts. There were guns and ammunition strewn around the house. Made it very easy for Bamber to frame his sister for the murder of the family.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
ServiceSoon said:
Was this the thread where we discussed the 'outlandish' suggestions of the NRA to 'harden' schools? One of the NRA's suggestions was to install bullet resistant glass. This was met with derision by many. Considering that the Florida school shooting suspect attempted to shootout a glass window to set-up a perch, does anybody want to reevaluate their position?
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Problem: killer on the loose inside a school building with a semi-automatic.

Solution: bullet proof windows

Sorry. I'm not seeing the connection.
 
Just a note for those not overly familiar with the Western U.S. - there is a whole lot of perfectly legal target practice that does not take place on organized firing ranges.

People in many rural areas can fire on their own property, depending on local laws and regulations concerning proximity to buildings, property lines, municipal boundaries and such.

Many people use informal ranges on government owned land, such as National Forests, Bureau of Land Management Lands, or lands owned by state governments. (These places are usually a mess of old appliances used for target practice, broken glass and other trash - called "trigger trash"), but they are popular. The Federal land agencies, at least, often have little ability to manage these areas due to political factors.

In some places, the amount of gun use on government lands far outstrips the amount that happens in organized and permitted firing ranges - and this is perfectly legal (again, depending on the precise location and local regulations). Requiring people to only fire at ranges would be a HUGE change in use patterns.

I man, it may be possible, but it would be a very, very big change from the way things are now.
 
ServiceSoon said:
Was this the thread where we discussed the 'outlandish' suggestions of the NRA to 'harden' schools? One of the NRA's suggestions was to install bullet resistant glass. This was met with derision by many. Considering that the Florida school shooting suspect attempted to shootout a glass window to set-up a perch, does anybody want to reevaluate their position?
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Does that change the roughly $500,000 to $1,000,000 per-school cost to retrofit existing schools?

It is also not clear if he was just not able to break the window out, or if the bullets actually failed to penetrate it. (ETA: There is shatter-resistant glass which is anything but bulletproof, but which does not break into tiny pieces and fall out of the frame when shot. It is not clear what sort that school had.)
 
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cullennz said:
It might be because I am not American, though I suspect it may be the same for everyone, but I am finding it increasing difficult to follow what views this Trump dude has on a lot of things lately.

Things like this guns thing he seems to be swinging wildly from ones side to the next depending on what day it is. Contradicting himself.

And the worrying thing is it seems to be getting more and more erratic as time passes.

Sure this dude ain't got Alzheimers or another issue?

If Americans get the dude, no worries. I'll ignore it
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TBF your sig is looking like his current view.
 
cullennz said:
It might be because I am not American, though I suspect it may be the same for everyone, but I am finding it increasing difficult to follow what views this Trump dude has on a lot of things lately.

Things like this guns thing he seems to be swinging wildly from ones side to the next depending on what day it is. Contradicting himself.

And the worrying thing is it seems to be getting more and more erratic as time passes.

Sure this dude ain't got Alzheimers or another issue?

If Americans get the dude, no worries. I'll ignore it
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As he always has, he says what he thinks the person he is speaking to most wants to hear. This is why he gets confused talking to more than one person, he's confused about which lie to tell.

Most people adopting this attitude would find it impossible to get through life without either amending their tactic or living under a bridge with a burner. Donald, by dint of having a very rich and indulgent father, an awful lot of money and, by all accounts, many, many dodgy connections, has never had anyone whose opinion he respects pull him up on it. Being the President is literally the first time in his entire life he's been required to be at all consistent. Previously anyone mentioning it would have been bullied into shutting up and, probably, dismissed from Donald's presence.
 
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MikeG said:
Indeed. But also to make the point that things aren't perfect here, before we get accused of being holier-than-thou by the gun nuts. There were guns and ammunition strewn around the house. Made it very easy for Bamber to frame his sister for the murder of the family.
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Oh, certainly - I think I have been perfectly clear in saying that I am far from believing that the UK is perfect when it comes to laws about gun ownership.

About 20 or more pages back one US poster objected to the way some UK posters here were describing UK gun laws as if they thought the UK could never again see anything like Hungerford or Dunblane. But I was amongst several UK posters who immediately said that of course we are not so naive as to think it was impossible for such things ever to happen again in the UK. It certainly could happen, but the tighter UK laws do seem to be making that much more difficult now.
 
crescent said:
It is also not clear if he was just not able to break the window out, or if the bullets actually failed to penetrate it. (ETA: There is shatter-resistant glass which is anything but bulletproof, but which does not break into tiny pieces and fall out of the frame when shot. It is not clear what sort that school had.)
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I think that we can make safe assumptions here. The bullets would have penetrated this "hurricane safety glass window" but not cause the pane to shatter and fall out of the frame.

It is being speculated that Cruz wanted to use that upper-floor window as if he were a sniper and then kill people outside and exiting the school. Speculated that he wanted a fully open frame without any glass so that he could take aim across a wide angle of his choice.
 
Now Kroger, the nation's biggest grocery company, will stop selling guns to anyone below the age of 21.
 
Oh, now I see the news. Fred Meyer stores have stopped selling guns to under 21. They are owned by Kroger who also owns Kroger stores (food).

Swoop, you need to tighten up on your reporting. Yesterday you posted false and misleading information about what Trump said (Cruz got guns from black market).
 
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William Parcher said:
I think that we can make safe assumptions here. The bullets would have penetrated this "hurricane safety glass window" but not cause the pane to shatter and fall out of the frame.

.
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Are windows needed in a school? What about steel ladder access instead of stairs that would slow down any assualt and make it easier for the teachers to nail the shooters 5even without combat experience. Must admit i prefer the gun control options but if that just isn't going to happen then we need to consider providing some killing advantage to the good guys.
 
Zambo said:
Are windows needed in a school? What about steel ladder access instead of stairs that would slow down any assualt and make it easier for the teachers to nail the shooters 5even without combat experience. Must admit i prefer the gun control options but if that just isn't going to happen then we need to consider providing some killing advantage to the good guys.
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Considering that the school in question is in Florida, I think the school district was very negligent for not surrounding the school with an alligator-infested moat. Crossed only by a single drawbridge - raised during school hours, of course.

ETA: More realistically, the NRA's proposals for making schools safe suggests just that - no windows, except for a few near doors and those only with bulletproof glass. It would probably be cheaper to brick over windows than to replace then with bulletproof glass anyway.
 
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Zambo said:
Are windows needed in a school?
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IMO, yes. Natural light is beneficial for quality illumination and also can reduce energy costs. I also feel that there is a psychological necessity to be able to see the outside world when one is inside a facility like a school.

Windowless schools should only be something in science fiction.
 
MikeG said:
Problem: killer on the loose inside a school building with a semi-automatic.

Solution: bullet proof windows

Sorry. I'm not seeing the connection.
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Problem: killer on the loose inside a school building with a semi-automatic.

Solution: Anything that distracts from discussion of whether the avaliability of certain weapons contributes to the problem.

See. Fits perfectly
 
We've got criminally insane people walking the streets and yet they still only want to talk about the guns.
 
Aridas said:
I have a friend who just told me about a guy who has guns all over the house, in places like on top of the fridge. He apparently has taught his kids about guns and their proper usage, but... it does seem like a needlessly very high risk way of handling gun education.
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Accident or burglary just waiting to happen.
 
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