School shooting Florida

[Craig B]

Does this mean that schoolteachers should be armed with AR15s and not handguns?

These proposals remind me of a film described in wiki

Kindergarten Cop is a 1990 American comedy-drama film, released to cinemas in the United States on December 21, 1990, Arnold Schwarzenegger stars as John Kimble, a tough police detective working undercover as a kindergarten teacher​

 

[Henri McPhee]

They had an American female teacher on Sky News in the UK yesterday, who had previously also been in the American Marines. She accused the National Rifle Association of being terrorists for suggesting children should be equipped with military assault guns.

There is a bit about bumping off people, and people who should be bumped off at You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWo_3CIcTBQ

 

[cullennz]

It's quite freaky that there are people think teachers with guns in class is a good idea.

But then it's also quite freaky that given the respect the US show their service people, some are also scared the same 10s of thousands of service people would blindly follow orders and start killing innocent civilians under some imagined rogue government.

 

[dann]

No doors are locked on danish schools anywhere. Noone is scared about that. You know why? Because there's no need to be scared.

Well, they did have an armed security guard with a metal detector at one of the departments of Niels Brock (Peter Bangsvej) 15-20 years ago. That's what I remember. And a student was shot in the foot outside the Hotel and Restaurant School of Copenhagen (Kødbyen) 25-30 years ago, gang related, I think.
But you're right. The students only fear bad grades ... (which is bad enough and the cause of life-long nightmares.)

 

[MikeG]

.........There is a bit about bumping off people, and people who should be bumped off at You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWo_3CIcTBQ

What has this got to do with the subject, Henri?

 

[Andy_Ross]

In the UK Primary Schools in England at least are supposed to have locked doors in to the front of the building and a secure perimeter fence around the remainder of the site.
The three Secondary Schools in my area also have very high anti-climb fences around the entire site including the sports fields and they also have locked doors in to the reception areas.

 

[MikeG]

The access into primary schools thing in the UK is driven by multiple factors, including fear of paedophiles, and avoiding children being sent home with the wrong adult. Kids aren't just turned out of the door at 3.15, but are only released by the teacher when the responsible adult collects them. I believe it was brought in after Dunblane, but has broadened into a much wider safe-guarding policy since then. It isn't so much about armed spree killers, who aren't going to have much trouble with a locked glass door.

 

[wobs]

In the UK Primary Schools in England at least are supposed to have locked doors in to the front of the building and a secure perimeter fence around the remainder of the site.
The three Secondary Schools in my area also have very high anti-climb fences around the entire site including the sports fields and they also have locked doors in to the reception areas.

Our kids' primary school is pretty much this.
They have locked external doors, and the main way in is through reception area. You can only get past reception with a member of staff who has a swipe card.

All the other doors are similarly locked with a swipe card mechanism. I guess at playtime, some doors are open at the back.

Reception class (ages 4-5, not to be confused with the reception area), has a separate play area and is gated.

The school is fenced which neighbour onto houses, but the main gate is open and there's a pedestrian back gate, also open.

Good thing, as our first born would probably have done a runner before now if it wasn't for the locked doors.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Possibly off topic (ironically given what I'm about to post!)-:

Watching footage of the schoolkid's anti NRA march one banner jumped out at me "We refuse to be enslaved by the NRA + Big Pharma". I really hope this doesn't get hijacked even peripherally by anti-medicine nuts.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I heard Wayne Lapierre talking about how "the left" is exploiting this situation to take away guns.

The thinking is just so bizarre. It's the idea that the gun is what is of primary importance, that somehow, we hate guns so much that we are willing to take advantage of dead teenagers in our quest to get rid of them.

No, Wayne. That's not it. We hate dead teenagers. That's what we hate. The guns are just a tool, but they are a necessary tool if you want to kill teenagers. We don't hate the guns. We just think that if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer dead young people. It's not like we are saying "Ahh....now we can get rid of guns." We are saying, "Screw it. We're tired of yet another round of funerals. And, as for your various slogans, 'We call B. S.' "

It seems to me that 'exploiting the situation' in this context is 'listening to the victims'. Obviously that can't be right, they haven't paid enough to be listened to!

 

[paulhutch]

I agree with my Republican Governor:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...s-arming-teachers-not-the-answer-to-shootings

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker says more guns in the classroom isn't the answer to school shootings.
...
Baker said the nation should instead follow some of the gun laws already adopted in Massachusetts, including an assault weapons ban and a law giving police chiefs greater power to deny gun licenses.

Obviously given the rarity of mass shootings at schools means we can never be certain any particular effort helps prevent these tragedies. However none of the MA schools I've visited over the past decade had metal detectors or armed guards and we are never in the news for mass deaths of school kids. We clearly don't have firearms laws as strong as the UK & Australia but we, the majority of MA citizens, figure more regulation of firearms is far more likely to help than less regulation.

 

[Travis]

I'd be amazed if there was one.

What I find most thought provoking is not the violence but the fact that we are happy for our kids to watch the violence but not the sex.

I know which one I'd rather do, but we seem to promote the less fun one to our kids.

Most American parents would rather find out their kids were beating up weaker kids than that they were having consensual sex.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Not even you can believe that taking guns from US residents is genocide, even if these residents like to possess guns.

I don't know the answer to this, but when was the last time a Maasai spearman used his spear to slaughter a large number of children belonging to his own people and community?

I didn't say it was. I made some very specific "if" statements that if they were an ethnic group. They can't be an ethnic group.

 

[Craig B]

I didn't say it was. I made some very specific "if" statements that if they were an ethnic group. They can't be an ethnic group.

That is not what you said at all. Your quoted source contained this

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such​

. The USA is a "national" entity, and therefore falls within the definition you have chosen to cite.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Not being "still easy" doesn't constitute a ban, as I'm sure you know. You're moving the goalposts.

Anyway, why should it be "easy" for an insane teenager to buy a self loading rifle?

Actually, im not conceding that it isn't a ban. Things are referred to as partial bans.

But I think you are right. What is the word I'm looking for? Let me put out a scenario below and see what word describes it.

Suppose a person was tired of black people coming into his club. So he implements policies that he is capable of doing. This results in a 90% drop in black attendance. He tells everyone that he never banned black people and they are welcome because look at the black people that comes to his club.

Colloquially, I would have used the word ban to describe that. But is there an accurate term?

 

[BobTheCoward]

That is not what you said at all. Your quoted source contained this

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such​

. The USA is a "national" entity, and therefore falls within the definition you have chosen to cite.

I said gun owners couldn't be an ethnic group. That was the hypothetical I was talking about.

 

[Meadmaker]

A typical school corridor wall is going to be rated for 1 hr. fire protection, and if it is a standard stud wall with sheetrock that means it will have 1 layer of 5/8" sheetrock on each side. That wouldn't even slow down a round from an AR15 noticeably.

Considering how many rounds he is supposed to have fired I'd be far more surprised if some bullets didn't go through walls.

Ive never been in a school built with drywall construction. My guess is too little sound barrier between classrooms.

I think there are a lot of cinderblock walls. I haven't paid close attention, but school walls are a lot more durable.

I think the kids shot in classrooms were probably shot through doors, which bullets could easily penetrate.

 

[William Parcher]

My presumption has always been that the walls are cinderblock. Maybe brick but probably cinderblock. The school is in a hurricane zone. But cinderblock is common for any modern American school.

I remain skeptical that any bullets passed through the walls.

 

[MikeG]

Choose the appropriate combination of bullets and guns:

 

[IanS]

As has been pointed out, there isn't a 'gun ban' in the UK. You can own all kinds of firearms but some are restricted.

But the restrictions are so tight as to amount to a de facto ban.

Less than 2% of England and Wales residents own a firearm (mostly shotguns). 20-30% of Americans own guns, mostly not shotguns. When you live in 20% land, 2% sure feels like a de facto ban.

It's not a total or “de facto” ban in the UK. Even I did not say that all guns were banned from any private ownership (and I'm probably the one here who has disagreed most with several UK posters here on the question of just how common it is to find guns in any normal UK homes).

What the UK laws do is to ban certain types of guns entirely from private ownership, and to make a second category of guns very difficult to own because the license application requires you to show actual need for why you should have a gun of that sort (and hardly anyone can show a real “need” for that sort of gun). But there is a 3rd category which includes shotguns and certain types of rifles, for which it's fairly easy to get a license to shoot on private land for game or for target shooting and such-like.

What the UK laws stop or severely restrict, is private home ownership of most types of guns for most people. The result is that outside of farming communities in the more rural country areas, almost nobody in the UK keeps any sort of gun in a private home (and it's that home ownership which appears to be the very big and completely lethal difference between the UK and the US).