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13 victims, ages 2 to 29, kept shackled by parents

isissxn said:
I very much doubt the kid was taking advanced math or science classes. (I think I remember reading the current class's subject was music, but I could have dreamed that up, and I simply refuse to go check right now because I have too many tabs open already.)
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A reporter interviewed a woman that was in his music class. No mention of any other classes he would have been taking.
 
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William Parcher said:
4.0 is perfect. We don't know what his curricula was for the 6 semesters. But it does suggest that his home schooling was good. That would be in spite of the shackling, beating, strangling, starvation, sleeping during the day, etc.

He would have also qualified for admission to this college which is here: https://www.msjc.edu
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No, it doesn't. It was a community college, not a university. It says more about his mom's commitment to actually get him to class. For entry level community college courses I would posit that attendance is the primary determinant of grade, not pre-existing academic achievement. Which is actually quite surprising.
 
Dr. Keith said:
No, it doesn't. It was a community college, not a university. It says more about his mom's commitment to actually get him to class. For entry level community college courses I would posit that attendance is the primary determinant of grade, not pre-existing academic achievement. Which is actually quite surprising.
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Some in this thread have suggested that the kids would be illiterate. Suggested a complete detachment from the world including television.
 
Dr. Keith said:
No, it doesn't. It was a community college, not a university. It says more about his mom's commitment to actually get him to class. For entry level community college courses I would posit that attendance is the primary determinant of grade, not pre-existing academic achievement. Which is actually quite surprising.
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This is what I was trying to say, but I was afraid someone would think I was knocking community college if I weren't careful with my wording. I'm not knocking community college at all - I'm simply saying that entry-level classes at community colleges are often demonstrably less difficult than at university (generally speaking, always exceptions, yada yada disclaimers, **** you skeptics, etc.). The reason for the difference is largely due to some high schools having more advanced curricula than others. At community college, at least the first semester or two are spent evening out that gap amongst the students.
 
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William Parcher said:
Wouldn't that be an assumption? I'm not following your statement.
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My statement, to put it bluntly, is that damn near anyone could manage an A in a single low-level class at a community college, especially if they had NO other commitments to distract them. He was enrolled for six semesters, but only taking one class at a time. That is nothing.

Furthermore, his parents probably ordered him to do well, so he did well. *ETA* - Maybe they even helped him with his classwork at home. They certainly had plenty of time...



Speaking of what everyone's statements are - can I ask you a question? People (myself included) have been flaring up and down throughout this thread, wondering about the exact nature of your skepticism and sometimes snarling at you over our own interpretations of it. That's not necessarily fair. So I will ask you directly. I'm still not clear - do you think the police/state/CPS/whatever are overstating the abuse in this case?

If so, why do you think they're doing that? If not, why are you concerned about these strained inconsistencies?

Abuse is a very bizarre thing sometimes. The fact that the details of this case don't make full sense wouldn't even cause me to bat an eye. For one thing, I'm not there or involved in any way, so what the hell do I know compared to the people working with the family? And secondly, you can't "understand" things like this. Not the way the people who committed the acts did. They had their own reasoning, and even if they dictated it all out for us, it wouldn't gel in most people's minds. Because most people do not think anything like these parents. I'm glad they're competent to stand trial, but there is nothing sane about them.
 
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William Parcher said:
4.0 is perfect. We don't know what his curricula was for the 6 semesters. But it does suggest that his home schooling was good. That would be in spite of the shackling, beating, strangling, starvation, sleeping during the day, etc.
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In case you really were wondering, this is the sort of post that gets people's hackles up and starts them asking if you're defending the parents or trying to minimize the abuse.


ETA - I would add one thing, which is that "sleeping during the day" should not be included on your list of discrepancies in any case. College students turn sleeping during the day into a lifestyle, especially around finals. Also, the articles I read were clear in saying that the parents also kept a somewhat nocturnal schedule. So it was less them forcing the kids to sleep all day, and more them forcing the kids to keep to their schedule. The house schedule. Whatever.
 
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isissxn said:
but only taking one class at a time.
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How do you know that? I haven't seen that reported.


I'm still not clear - do you think the police/state/CPS/whatever are overstating the abuse in this case?
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I'm suggesting that the abuse may have been irregular over time and across individual children. This is suggested to me by visual evidence and various information presented. The charges themselves may be accurate but the narrative given by the District Attorney may be overly generalized. It's also possible that the charges aren't fully accurate as sometimes the prosecutor aims too high.

Putting aside what was found in the house and the medical examinations, the story of what happened over 29 years must have come from the children themselves. It can be ugly, but the defense is likely to try to impeach or disqualify testimony about what happened. "You deprived Janet of sufficient food for years! Well, Janet doesn't ever seem to eat very much in spite of putting big plates of food in front of her. We couldn't exactly shove it down her throat." "You physically abused David and he can no longer walk properly! Well no, David was born with some disabilities and he always did walk with some difficulties."
 
isissxn said:
If this boy was the oldest and the abuse started later in his life (which seems to be the case), he was probably among the least cognitively affected children. Hence a potential reason for his scumbag parents to let him learn a thing or two, since he was probably next in line to be responsible for the rest of the brood.
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And majoring in music makes me think they had plans to take this on the road.

I picture them all piling into a [Mondrian themed schoolbus].

Holy... that's the same haircuts.
 
William Parcher said:
It is possible that one or more of these children were born with mental, neurological and physical disorders which were not caused by any abuse which may have happened. It's possible that the source of "don't know what a police officer is" could be from attempts to talk to children with inherent cognitive disorder.

We cannot assume that all of these children were "normal" at the beginning of their lives.
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Even so, what parent would chain that child to a bed and let it lie in its own excreta? Even if a child is born with a congenital defect, it would still be grossly cruel.
 
Vixen said:
Even so, what parent would chain that child to a bed and let it lie in its own excreta? Even if a child is born with a congenital defect, it would still be grossly cruel.
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A parent with mental illness might do that. The alternative is a sane parent with wildly sadistic tendencies. But then you've right back at mental illness.
 
There are no charges related to the 2 year old girl. Reports say she is healthy and unharmed. The house is described as filthy and stinky. Apparently there are no charges based on that for this little girl.

If the parents have been fully consistent with their treatment of their children then they don't abuse or malnourish their children at least up until age 2. We don't know when it starts or if this girl gets better treatment than any other had gotten, or what.
 
I don't think we'll know what really happened until the trial, and, really, not until the book deal.

Depending on how severely impaired they are, it might the talk show circuit.

And, if they do cash in with book deals or other media appearances, good for them. somehow I don't think they are ready to start earning a living through conventional means.
 
The older ones are likely to get job offers or placements if for no other reason than that good people will want to help them get their feet.

The mother's sister says that the parents stopped going to church and were exploring other religions, FWIW. There is also a bizarre account of the parents traveling across the country so that the wife could have sex with a guy they met online. Then some time later the parents went back to that same hotel to relive the event and have sex with each other. It was described as a relived celebration of the previously arranged extramarital sex. WTF?
 
Vixen said:
Even so, what parent would chain that child to a bed and let it lie in its own excreta? Even if a child is born with a congenital defect, it would still be grossly cruel.
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The same kind of people who have more than 30 cats, with 8 or 9 dead ones in the basement freezer waiting burial that won't happen until the city interferes.

You know, you think you can handle things but the stress keeps piling up. You're barely maintaining. Then an event happens, maybe a health issue or a financial set back and the next think you know the cat you thought was just fat has a litter and you can't do anything about it because the litter is in the attic and you have to be a cat to get up there, and the kid with mental issues won't shut-up and you end up tying them down just temporarily because right now Mommy needs some bourbon and Quiet and you had better provide the quiet in you know what's good for you! And if that means you poop your pants then poop your pants, gawdammit!! We’ll deal with it when Mommy can deal with it and that might not be until tomorrow!

A few days later you find yourself doing it again, only you’re screaming at another kid saying ”if you don’t like what I’m doing to Emily then you can either keep her quiet yourself or you can join her ‘cause I’ve got plenty of rope for everyone and if I have to tie up everyone to get just a few minutes of QUIET then everybody WILL GET TIED UP DO I MAKE MYSELF UNDERSTOOD?!!!!”

Months later the bondage routine has become routine, the kittens have been dealt with by catching them one at a time and clubbing them with a shovel, their tiny bodies disposed of one or two at a time. Order has been restored to a level Mom and Dad can cope with, even though they know secretly they’ve gone too far, which is why nobody can have friends anymore. Nobody but family is allowed into the house because all hell will break loose if outsiders see what is going on.

They don’t see themselves as bad people, just people forced to do things you and I won’t understand because we weren’t there facing the pressure they were facing.
 
Mycroft said:
The same kind of people who have more than 30 cats, with 8 or 9 dead ones in the basement freezer waiting burial that won't happen until the city interferes.

You know, you think you can handle things but the stress keeps piling up. You're barely maintaining. Then an event happens, maybe a health issue or a financial set back and the next think you know the cat you thought was just fat has a litter and you can't do anything about it because the litter is in the attic and you have to be a cat to get up there, and the kid with mental issues won't shut-up and you end up tying them down just temporarily because right now Mommy needs some bourbon and Quiet and you had better provide the quiet in you know what's good for you! And if that means you poop your pants then poop your pants, gawdammit!! We’ll deal with it when Mommy can deal with it and that might not be until tomorrow!

A few days later you find yourself doing it again, only you’re screaming at another kid saying ”if you don’t like what I’m doing to Emily then you can either keep her quiet yourself or you can join her ‘cause I’ve got plenty of rope for everyone and if I have to tie up everyone to get just a few minutes of QUIET then everybody WILL GET TIED UP DO I MAKE MYSELF UNDERSTOOD?!!!!”

Months later the bondage routine has become routine, the kittens have been dealt with by catching them one at a time and clubbing them with a shovel, their tiny bodies disposed of one or two at a time. Order has been restored to a level Mom and Dad can cope with, even though they know secretly they’ve gone too far, which is why nobody can have friends anymore. Nobody but family is allowed into the house because all hell will break loose if outsiders see what is going on.

They don’t see themselves as bad people, just people forced to do things you and I won’t understand because we weren’t there facing the pressure they were facing.
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That's one scary post, dude.

Scary mostly because it's probably about right in some cases, although I think in this case there will be a little more mix of mental illness and a hint of sadism.
 
William Parcher said:
How do you know that? I haven't seen that reported.
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I had a look back in my search history, and I think you're right. I guess I either misread something or my brain invented a detail. Scary how that can happen. My apologies.

However, I would still say that it's likely he was doing one class at a time. But as you said, I don't actually have any evidence for that. My mistake.
 
Meadmaker said:
That's one scary post, dude.

Scary mostly because it's probably about right in some cases, although I think in this case there will be a little more mix of mental illness and a hint of sadism.
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Thirteen kids is a lot. Way more than any two people can handle all by themselves. The couples who do it successfully do it in part by incorporating themselves into their community. They get help from family, Church, government, neighbors, school district and whomever.

These people isolated themselves. They didn't belong to a church, they held their extended family at arm's length, they hid from their neighbors and they minimized their contact with government.

I have no doubt mental illness played a significant role, but did it create this situation? How could one not develop mental illness living in that situation for year after year? It was awful for the kids, but it had to be awful for the parents too. I imagine this vicious feedback loop where stress creates abuse which necessitates secrecy which creates more stress. At some point there was a moment when things first got out of hand, and they made a decision to keep it a secret when they should have sought help instead. The right and moral choice is to seek help when you’re over your head, but maybe they saw it as weakness. They projected an image of a joyous family that was all smiles, Disneyland, Dr Seuss and matching clothes. That’s what they wanted to be, not the chained to the bed hiding from the neighbors kind of family.

If it seems like I’m arguing with you, I’m not. I’m just putting my own thoughts down as my own way of processing.
 
Children rescued in California captivity case to be split up in foster care

CBS News said:
The six minors who were found shackled in a California home will be split up between two foster homes, a source close to the investigation tells CBS News. Riverside County will be granted conservatorship over the seven adult siblings and they will be transferred to an assisted living facility for adults, the source said.

A source close to the investigation told CBS News' David Begnaud last week that the siblings specifically asked social workers if they could stay together after being freed...
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-children-found-shackled-in-home-placed-in-foster-care


Parents who allegedly held kids captive were planning to move 'within days'

ABC News said:
The California parents who allegedly tortured and held their 13 children captive were preparing to move "within days" of when the couple’s 17-year-old daughter escaped and alerted authorities, multiple sources told ABC News exclusively.

David Turpin, 57, was getting a job transfer from California to Oklahoma with the defense contractor Northrop Grumann, the sources said, and as a result, the family was preparing to move "within days" of Jan. 14, when the 17-year-old clambered out of a window and used a deactivated cellphone to dial 911 for help, according to police. Authorities quickly came to the house, ultimately arresting the parents and taking all 13 siblings into state custody.

Sources told ABC News, "There were boxes in the house consistent with moving –- concentrated in hallways, entryway and bedrooms."

It's not clear whether the move had any role in the timing of the 17-year-old daughter's escape.

The family had moved several times during the years, twice in Texas and once in California...
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/parents-al...-captive-planning-move-days/story?id=52548749
 
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