Proof of Immortality, VI

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godless dave said:
So even though I followed the same recipe, I got a different loaf of bread, not the same loaf of bread.

Does this mean the second loaf of bread is brand new and came out of nowhere?
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- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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Then why do imagine that the process will continue after the brain stops functioning?

ETA: what your contention really is is that the self is a separate entity, and not an emergent property.
 
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Jabba said:
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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I know you'll ignore this again, but if this is true, then the you NOW is a completely different "you" than the you five seconds ago. Does that make any sense?
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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Just like following a bread recipe produces a brand new loaf of bread that has never existed before and will never exist again.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking,
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You are the last person who should dare speak for science.

consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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No, you're still trying to create an entity separate from the organism by using the term "self". That you may not do.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
Click to expand...

Your contention? Pfft.

The idea of self as emergent property of a functioning brain is something that people have been pounding into your head as long as you have been pounding on a keyboard.

You are trying to shoplift credibility from your own critics' arguments. It's not working.

You may get away with a lot of fraudulent things in your life, but you will never be an ISF authority on the discipline of science.

Ask me why. I double dare you.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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No, that has never been your contention. When we started all of this, you had no clue what "emergent" even meant.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
Click to expand...

The result of the emergent property of consciousness is consciousness. There is nothing additional produced by a healthy brain that needs a different word.

The only thing that distinguishes the consciousness that my brain is generating now from the consciousness it generated five minutes ago and the consciousness that might be generated by a perfect replica in five hundred years time is their spacetime co-ordinates.
 
Jabba said:
- No.
- My contention is that the self is the result of the emergent property of consciousness. That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
Click to expand...


Why do you consider the consciousness that never existed before and never will again to have a lifespan of one human life? If it's the property of a process, then isn't it different at each and every discrete moment in the process?

Let me ask for the forty millionth time: In what way are "you" (in your likes, loves, fears, hungers, assumptions, knowledge, beliefs, et cet.) the same as the person called Jabba when he was 5 years old?

Other than a general distaste for Indian food, I share almost no characteristics with 5 year-old Loss Leader. And that's true even though we have the exact same DNA.

What about you?
 
Loss Leader said:
Why do you consider the consciousness that never existed before and never will again to have a lifespan of one human life? If it's the property of a process, then isn't it different at each and every discrete moment in the process?
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Ooh, Jabba, I have a question:

If you go into cardiac arrest, your brain stops entirely and your consciousness shuts down. In fact you have no recollection of the time between losing and regaining consciousness. So here's my question:

If someone goes into cardiac arrest and comes back, is that person's "self" a completely new person?
 
Jabba said:
That scientifically speaking, consciousness intrinsically creates/produces a brand new self that never existed before and will never exist again.
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No, that's not science. That's you trying to rewrite "property" to mean "entity" as usual, and slapping the words "scientifically speaking" on the front of it in the hopes of fooling someone into thinking you're talking about materialism.
 
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