Trump and NFL boycott

Ziggurat said:
It's directed at stuff like claiming that Pence walking out of a baseball game is an act of oppression.
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You’re right in that the isolated act of the Vice President walking out of a football game does not in of itself equate to oppression.

The oppression comes into play when you put that act in the larger context of the President of the United States using the power of his office to attack American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
 
johnny karate said:
You’re right in that the isolated act of the Vice President walking out of a football game does not in of itself equate to oppression.

The oppression comes into play when you put that act in the larger context of the President of the United States using the power of his office to attack American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
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Yeah, no. Still not oppression.

Furthermore, I recall a bunch of Trump's critics getting upset recently because he DIDN'T attack a different group of American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yeah, no. Still not oppression.

Furthermore, I recall a bunch of Trump's critics getting upset recently because he DIDN'T attack a different group of American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
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True.

Then again IMO it's perfectly acceptable to criticise neo-Nazis, racists and Conferderate sympathisers and I expect the leader of the free world to do likewise. YMMV :rolleyes:
 
johnny karate said:
You’re right in that the isolated act of the Vice President walking out of a football game does not in of itself equate to oppression.

The oppression comes into play when you put that act in the larger context of the President of the United States using the power of his office to attack American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
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Can't emphasize enough that it's about attacking black American citizens for daring to protest a country that has oppressed them for centuries and continues to do so albeit less severely.

Meanwhile Trump continues to deny, minimize and excuse Russia's subversive influence operations that helped him get elected. What a true patriot!
 
The Don said:
Then again IMO it's perfectly acceptable to criticise neo-Nazis, racists and Conferderate sympathisers and I expect the leader of the free world to do likewise. YMMV :rolleyes:
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He can't offend his base.
 
The Don said:
True.

Then again IMO it's perfectly acceptable to criticise neo-Nazis, racists and Conferderate sympathisers and I expect the leader of the free world to do likewise. YMMV :rolleyes:
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Oh, I'm not saying he shouldn't criticize neo-Nazis. That's kind of the point: it's OK for the president to criticize people for exercising their free speech. You can complain about or praise the President's criticism (or lack thereof) based on whether you agree or disagree with it, but then we're back to normal politics. The attempt to portray Trump's current criticism of the NFL as being somehow outside the bounds of acceptable politics is just an attempt to avoid arguing on the merits.
 
Ziggurat said:
Furthermore, I recall a bunch of Trump's critics getting upset recently because he DIDN'T attack a different group of American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
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If anything Trump is displaying far more contempt and hostility towards the black people protesting during the national anthem than he did towards the neo-nazis rallying in support for racism and slavery.

It really shows whose side he's on.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yeah, no. Still not oppression.

Furthermore, I recall a bunch of Trump's critics getting upset recently because he DIDN'T attack a different group of American citizens for daring to exercise free expression.
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Not all opinions are equal, are they? All have equal rights to express their opinions, but Trump clearly made a choice when he stressed that there are fine people marching with nazis, and he made another choice when he decided to trash African-American role models for protesting practical racism.

Again, the message is crystal clear: In the President of the USA's mind, nazi sympathising white racists need to be encouraged, blacks discouraged to make their opinions known.
 
Ziggurat said:
Oh, I'm not saying he shouldn't criticize neo-Nazis. That's kind of the point: it's OK for the president to criticize people for exercising their free speech. You can complain about or praise the President's criticism (or lack thereof) based on whether you agree or disagree with it, but then we're back to normal politics. The attempt to portray Trump's current criticism of the NFL as being somehow outside the bounds of acceptable politics is just an attempt to avoid arguing on the merits.
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A point of distinction, I wouldn't criticise (and wouldn't expect President Trump) neo-Nazis for exercising their right to free speech. I'd criticise them for their beliefs, and the way in which they chose to express them (a torchlight parade chanting anti-Semitic slogans) and would express President Trump to do likewise.
 
The Don said:
A point of distinction, I wouldn't criticise (and wouldn't expect President Trump) neo-Nazis for exercising their right to free speech. I'd criticise them for their beliefs, and the way in which they chose to express them (a torchlight parade chanting anti-Semitic slogans) and would express President Trump to do likewise.
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This is not just "a" point of distinction. It is the key point of distinction that completely separates the morality of one from the other. Which one is the more accurate expression of our American ideals? I realize that is a rhetoric question, but I am certain Trump has come to an opposite conclusion than most of us here.
 
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Ziggurat said:
There's no budgetary difference, no. And that was the specific complaint I was addressing, which is distinct from your complaint.
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So, if there aren't separate accounting categories in the budget for vacations vs. divisive demagoguery, it doesn't matter which it was?

Ziggurat said:
Yet he is blessed by his choice of critics and opponents, who are driven to insanity and absurdity by mere tweets. It's almost as if they want him to win in 2020.
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The critics and opponents he needs to worry about are those who are simply saying that turds stink.
 
The Don said:
A point of distinction, I wouldn't criticise (and wouldn't expect President Trump) neo-Nazis for exercising their right to free speech. I'd criticise them for their beliefs, and the way in which they chose to express them (a torchlight parade chanting anti-Semitic slogans) and would express President Trump to do likewise.
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A further point of distinction.... Zig's taken liberty with the truth here. Trump was not criticized for not attacking Nazis' or anyone's right to free speech. He was criticized for his equivocation on the violence and ignoring any blame on the right; sorta blaming the Poles for the invasion. He's not being criticized for supporting their free speech. He's being criticized for agreeing with the content of that free speech.

Donald Trump standing up for free speech? Who's kidding who? "Get him out of here!" "It's okay, I'll pay your legal bills."
 
mgidm86 said:
You think NFL fans are racist? People who watch a sport where about 75 - 80% of the players are black? People who proudly purchase and wear these same players' jerseys?

Is racism and pointing fingers all people here understand anymore? Can there ever be any other reason not to like something a black man does?

Oh, I hear Kaepernick will stop kneeling if a team will sign him.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kaepernick-hell-stand-anthem-chance-play-nfl-report/story?id=50356136
Assuming ABC News has the story straight I just have to laugh.
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Apparently, this is not true and Kaepernick never spoke about this with the reporter.

https://sports.yahoo.com/kaepernick-says-stand-anthem-signed-team-172312994.html
 
WilliamSeger said:
So, if there aren't separate accounting categories in the budget for vacations vs. divisive demagoguery, it doesn't matter which it was?
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Not from a budgetary perspective, because it's all going to get used either way.
 
theprestige said:
"Taking a knee" during athletic activity connotes taking a break, or briefly removing yourself from the action. It has nothing to do with showing respect. Rather, it's pretty clear signal that you're not participating in the activity. Same thing in military contexts, actually. Nut you know all this, of course. Nice DOK.
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It was suggested to Collin by a veteran and team mate as a more respectful way to bring attention to police brutality. But your opinion is good, too.
 
I didn't think I could despise the lying, corrupt, incompetent, sanctimonious, un-Christian, treasonous lickspittle any more than I already did, but as a taxpayer I'm pleased to report that I can find extra contempt for Pence after spending on the order of a quarter-million of our dollars on his clumsy stunt.
 
Ziggurat said:
Not from a budgetary perspective, because it's all going to get used either way.
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I don't think taxpayers who object to their tax money being spent on inflammatory demagoguery feel constrained to look at it from a "budgetary perspective."
 
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