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Trump and NFL boycott

So it's
"I left today's Colts game, as planned, at the request of POTUS, a draft dodger who makes fun of veterans & their parents"
 
mgidm86 said:
You think NFL fans are racist? People who watch a sport where about 75 - 80% of the players are black? People who proudly purchase and wear these same players' jerseys?
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I've listened to sports radio. Yes, there are racist fans of football - and basketball, as well.

ETA: Hey, remember when that one black player yelled at a camera, and people all rushed to proclaim him a "thug", and then two hockey teams began brawling as soon as the puck was dropped, and nobody called them thugs?

Yeah.
 
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Ziggurat said:
The VP doesn't depend on getting people to pay money to watch him. And he's already intrinsically political, because (and this might come as a surprise to you) he's a politician. A politician politicizing something is like a day ending in y.
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So in other words this was a pathetic political stunt to pander to Trump's base?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
But when the top two elected leaders of our democracy decide that political speech – in this case, a silent and non-violent form of political speech – is unacceptable to the point of walking out of the game where it happens, well, that’s chilling. That’s the kind of oppressive nonsense our ancestors were leaving when they crossed the Atlantic Ocean hundreds of years ago
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.
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Help! Help! I'm bein' oppressed! The Vice President walked out of a football game!

The irony is also not lost on me that walking out of a football game is also a non-violent form of political speech.
 
Garrison said:
So in other words this was a pathetic political stunt to pander to Trump's base?
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Given the deteriorating status of the NFL due to self-inflicted wounds, I'm not sure that is the item that really needs to be called pathetic. But if it makes you feel better to describe it so, then go ahead.
 
Ziggurat said:
Help! Help! I'm bein' oppressed! The Vice President walked out of a football game!

The irony is also not lost on me that walking out of a football game is also a non-violent form of political speech.
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Hey, know what? That's fair enough.
 
Stacko said:
And to continue to waste money on jet travel.

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And that starts to make a bit of a difference for Zig's point. Sure, Pence has the right to make non-violent political expressions, but once it costs the taxpayers a bit of change, his right seems a bit less defensible.

Right, Zig?

ETA: Do you think he went to the game expecting no one to kneel? Do you think he was shocked when "15 to 23" folks kneeled (and honestly, can't journalists just count them)? Was it a nice and simple day out at the old football game for Pence, or was it a planned and taxpayer-paid opportunity for political grandstanding?

Suddenly, I'm a lot less sold on Zig's point.
 
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phiwum said:
And that starts to make a bit of a difference for Zig's point. Sure, Pence has the right to make non-violent political expressions, but once it costs the taxpayers a bit of change, his right seems a bit less defensible.

Right, Zig?
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The President and the Vice President cost a lot of money whenever they travel. While I am attracted to frugality, the reality of the situation is that they still get to choose optional travel. They don't give up that right upon taking office, nor do they personally have to foot the bill for it. So long as Pence's discretionary travel expenses overall are in line with our expectations for the office, then there is no reason to take exception to the specific uses of that travel budget. I've heard complaints about Trump's high travel expenses, and I think that may well have some merit. I have not heard similarly about Pence, which makes me suspect that he hasn't really abused it, or at least not more so than his predecessors. I am open to correction on this, but again, the issue would be total discretionary travel spending, not the specific use to which he applies it.

ETA: Do you think he went to the game expecting no one to kneel?
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Probably not. Why would that make a difference?
 
Ziggurat said:
The President and the Vice President cost a lot of money whenever they travel. While I am attracted to frugality, the reality of the situation is that they still get to choose optional travel. They don't give up that right upon taking office, nor do they personally have to foot the bill for it. So long as Pence's discretionary travel expenses overall are in line with our expectations for the office, then there is no reason to take exception to the specific uses of that travel budget. I've heard complaints about Trump's high travel expenses, and I think that may well have some merit. I have not heard similarly about Pence, which makes me suspect that he hasn't really abused it, or at least not more so than his predecessors. I am open to correction on this, but again, the issue would be total discretionary travel spending, not the specific use to which he applies it.



Probably not. Why would that make a difference?
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It makes the following difference.

Option 1: He travels to see a football game, is offended and leaves. He's kinda stupid, since he knows the issues, but you know, some folks are indeed stupid.

Option 2: He travels to allegedly see a football game, expecting to leave early as a sign of counterprotest and spending taxpayer money to do so.

Far as I'm concerned, woulda been nice if he had stayed home and not spent my money in order to make a political statement with which I do not agree. He coulda made the same statement from his couch.

Which makes all the nonsense you said about how of course the Veep can travel on the public dime in the first paragraph nonsense. This wasn't an outing for him. He went there to publicly leave. I'd just as soon not pay for this nonsense, and that's true even if I agreed with his position.
 
phiwum said:
It makes the following difference.

Option 1: He travels to see a football game, is offended and leaves. He's kinda stupid, since he knows the issues, but you know, some folks are indeed stupid.

Option 2: He travels to allegedly see a football game, expecting to leave early as a sign of counterprotest and spending taxpayer money to do so.

Far as I'm concerned, woulda been nice if he had stayed home and not spent my money in order to make a political statement with which I do not agree. He coulda made the same statement from his couch.

Which makes all the nonsense you said about how of course the Veep can travel on the public dime in the first paragraph nonsense. This wasn't an outing for him. He went there to publicly leave. I'd just as soon not pay for this nonsense, and that's true even if I agreed with his position.
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None of this is related to walking out being an act of oppression.

And players could have made their statements at some other time too. They felt it was important to do it at that specific place and time. That isn't fundamentally different than Pence's choice of a specific place and time.
 
Ziggurat said:
None of this is related to walking out being an act of oppression.

And players could have made their statements at some other time too. They felt it was important to do it at that specific place and time. That isn't fundamentally different than Pence's choice of a specific place and time.
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Quite right, but for the fact that you and I spent a small bit of taxes for Pence to make that political act in favor of his boss.

You don't agree with the protestors? Don't go to the game. Or do, and leave. No problem. When he goes on our dime just to leave, I have an issue. He's spending taxpayer money to make a controversial statement and it could have been made rather cheaper.


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Ziggurat said:
Help! Help! I'm bein' oppressed! The Vice President walked out of a football game!

The irony is also not lost on me that walking out of a football game is also a non-violent form of political speech.
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Yes, and the content of that speech is: Africans, know your place, us white rich dude are the ones speaking, shut up already.
 
dudalb said:
A;Pence is from and was Governor of Indiana and is a Indianipolis Colts fan
B:The Indianapolis Colts were retiring Peyton Manning's number today.That is a big thing is US sports the highest honor a team can pay to one of it's great players.
The 49ers just happned to be the team that Colts were playing.
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He tweeted a picture of him and his wife at the game in their Colts jerseys.

It was a picture from a game in 2014.
 
Ziggurat said:
Help! Help! I'm bein' oppressed! The Vice President walked out of a football game!

The irony is also not lost on me that walking out of a football game is also a non-violent form of political speech.
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It's not that Pence walked out, it's that he pretended it was a random event when it was so obviously staged.

Do you approve of the taxpayer's dollars spent on this little charade?

Political football: Judicial Watch finds Pence flight to Super Bowl cost $89,246

Do you approve of the POTUS and VPOTUS demonstrating against people's First Amendment rights?

Think their personal views should come from their public office?

I suppose you totally approve of their condemnation of black football players speaking out against excessive use of police force against young black men while praising the young white men that marched with torches and Nazi flags.
 
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