Charlottesville Car Crash Video

tyr_13 said:
Black Nationalists have in recent years had move a presence, and the increased acceptance of violence on the far-left is very problematic (eventually this will lead to them killing someone), it is abjectly dwarfed by the violence the far right has been engaging in for more than thirty years. It isn't until you go back to 1970 that far left groups had significant violence.
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I'd argue that this has already happened - I believe that we've had three former military black nationalists who have made internet videos rejecting the BLM nonviolent route and calling for violence, and then went out and assassinated police. that's last year's attacks in Dallas and Baton Rouge, and this weekend's in Florida.

We're also wildly undercounting the white supremacist violence numbers - the guy who drove from Bmore to NYC to kill a homeless black guy, the guy that shot two Indian immigrants, the guy that killed two people in..was it Seattle? - when they stepped up to stop him from tormenting a muslim woman on a train, and on and on.Last Weekend only served to show that this sort of random white supremacist violence is at the heart of the so-called "Alt-Right".

(Oh, and CaptainHowdy - I saw that little "chimping out" racist reference in post #225. Did that phrase bring back old memories for you?)
 
BobTheCoward said:
George Zimmerman took similarly inflaming actions and it did not ultimately turn in a guilty verdict.
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Yes, but that was in Florida, and Florida law is obviously stupid. I'm not at all certain that Virginia will be so kind towards violent racist white people.

(And thank you, Trebuchet. Yeah, it was Portland)
 
johnny karate said:
I love how the narrative has become that it is not unusual to find people who aren't white nationalists at a white nationalist rally.

Imagine if this had been an ISIS rally. Not only would exactly zero of these people be making the same argument, but any violence visited upon attendees of an ISIS rally by counter protesters would be celebrated.
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Of course you're going to find White Nationalists at a White Nationalist rally! What else would you expect? I think I figured out your problem--you're conflating White Nationalists with White supremacists and Nazis. Somehow you got the idea in your head that European Christians wanting to preserve a culture in which they find value and meaning is European Christian supremacism. That having strong borders and domestic policies designed to prevent assimilation and intermarriage with non-European Christians is bigotry or racism.

White Nationalists are not racists or bigots. They're analogous to Zionists. Zionists believe that the Jewish people realize their full potential when living in a Jewish ethnostate. White Nationalists recognize that the same is true for European Christians. Nobody criticizes Israel for their policies toward non-Jewish citizens. Nobody says Jews are racists or bigot because their religion strongly discourages assimilation or intermarriage with gentiles. You'd have to be a true schizophrenic unable to function in society to believe that Zionism is acceptable but White Nationalism isn't.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Of course you're going to find White Nationalists at a White Nationalist rally! What else would you expect? I think I figured out your problem--you're conflating White Nationalists with White supremacists and Nazis. Somehow you got the idea in your head that European Christians wanting to preserve a culture in which they find value and meaning is European Christian supremacism. That having strong borders and domestic policies designed to prevent assimilation and intermarriage with non-European Christians is bigotry or racism.

White Nationalists are not racists or bigots. They're analogous to Zionists. Zionists believe that the Jewish people realize their full potential when living in a Jewish ethnostate. White Nationalists recognize that the same is true for European Christians. Nobody criticizes Israel for their policies toward non-Jewish citizens. Nobody says Jews are racists or bigot because their religion strongly discourages assimilation or intermarriage with gentiles. You'd have to be a true schizophrenic unable to function in society to believe that Zionism is acceptable but White Nationalism isn't.
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Nobody criticizes Israel????!!!!!! Someone pass the Digitalis; my face is freezing over.

I can find you four dozen (((people))) just on my old Rolodex who criticize the Israeli government for its policies towards the non-Jewish population. I'd be willing to bet on this board full of self-styled critics and questioners of EVERYTHING, we'd find a few dozen more.
 
Scopedog said:
I wonder if the slowed/stopped cars were occupied and if so, what the occupants were feeling at that intersection while slowed/stopped and what they observed the protesters doing around them before the ramming began.
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I have wondered that as well. A reporter who was filming at the time of the incident said that one of the cars was occupied. Who were the people in the cars? Why was there a crowd gathered around them?
 
Mumbles said:
I'd argue that this has already happened - I believe that we've had three former military black nationalists who have made internet videos rejecting the BLM nonviolent route and calling for violence, and then went out and assassinated police. that's last year's attacks in Dallas and Baton Rouge, and this weekend's in Florida.

We're also wildly undercounting the white supremacist violence numbers - the guy who drove from Bmore to NYC to kill a homeless black guy, the guy that shot two Indian immigrants, the guy that killed two people in..was it Seattle? - when they stepped up to stop him from tormenting a muslim woman on a train, and on and on.Last Weekend only served to show that this sort of random white supremacist violence is at the heart of the so-called "Alt-Right".

(Oh, and CaptainHowdy - I saw that little "chimping out" racist reference in post #225. Did that phrase bring back old memories for you?)
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"Chimp" is a word used for Holocaust Deniers in the conspiracy forum. Chimping out is a word that describes the way they sound when they're defending their beliefs. Spend some time there and you'll see what I mean. Any racism you see there is in your head.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
"Chimp" is a word used for Holocaust Deniers in the conspiracy forum. Chimping out is a word that describes the way they sound when they're defending their beliefs. Spend some time there and you'll see what I mean. Any racism you see there is in your head.
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In own head? Google "chimping out", I dare you.
 
BobTheCoward said:
In own head? Google "chimping out", I dare you.
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Ih, don't worry, I totally buy his explanation that the guys who were protesting against the pseudo-nazis that had invaded their town were all Holocaust deniers.

I also sent my banking info to a Nigerian Finance Minister, and bought the Golden Gate Bridge.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Nobody criticizes Israel????!!!!!! Someone pass the Digitalis; my face is freezing over.

I can find you four dozen (((people))) just on my old Rolodex who criticize the Israeli government for its policies towards the non-Jewish population. I'd be willing to bet on this board full of self-styled critics and questioners of EVERYTHING, we'd find a few dozen more.
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Antisemites criticize Israel. I shouldn't need to say it, but, the opinion of anrisemites don't count.

Find me ONE person who is not antisemitic who says that anybody who supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is a racist Judeosupremecist
 
Meadmaker said:
...
Now, back to Charlottesville. The driver committed a crime by running into the crowd, but the people who set upon his car with baseball bats committed a crime by doing so. ...
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Did they?
The murderer was still in possesion of the weapen he used only seconds ago to actually murder, and the assumption that he will continue to use this weapon to further murder is surely more justified than the opposite assumption that the victims are no going to kill him.
The crowd would have legitimate reasons a) to defend against further crimes and b) attempt to arrest the murderer.
They used sticks and bats against the murder weapon.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Antisemites criticize Israel. I shouldn't need to say it, but, the opinion of anrisemites don't count.

Find me ONE person who is not antisemitic who says that anybody who supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is a racist Judeosupremecist
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It is racist judeosupremecist.

There you go.
 
Oystein said:
Did they?
The murderer was still in possesion of the weapen he used only seconds ago to actually murder, and the assumption that he will continue to use this weapon to further murder is surely more justified than the opposite assumption that the victims are no going to kill him.
The crowd would have legitimate reasons a) to defend against further crimes and b) attempt to arrest the murderer.
They used sticks and bats against the murder weapon.
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You might be right. Their actions could be seen as preventing further attack. At least, they could probably get to reasonable doubt that way.

I must admit, though, I found it disturbing, not that they set upon the car under such circumstances, but that they happened to have baseball bats handy.
 
Meadmaker said:
You might be right. Their actions could be seen as preventing further attack. At least, they could probably get to reasonable doubt that way.

I must admit, though, I found it disturbing, not that they set upon the car under such circumstances, but that they happened to have baseball bats handy.
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This is why information from the occupants of the impeded cars is important. Were the counter-protesters already attacking cars? If there were Antifa among the group in the intersection then it is very possible since indiscriminate collateral property damage is not beneath them (recent Berkeley protests, for example). This knowledge may or may not help the crowd attacker's defense but it would lend credibility to the idea of bad people on both sides.
 
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Scopedog said:
This is why information from the occupants of the impeded cars is important. Were the counter-protesters already attacking cars? If there were Antifa among the group in the intersection then it is very possible since indiscriminate collateral property damage is not beneath them (recent Berkeley protests, for example). This knowledge may or may not help the crowd attacker's defense but it would lend credibility to the idea of bad people on both sides.
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It's a bit early to go all truther on this. At least wait until there's a Jew to blame.
 
Somebody asked earlier in the thread if there were hammer and sickle flags at the rally and I am not aware of any, but I learned about another flag today:
http://store.iww.org/iww-globe-flag.html

The preamble to the Industrial Workers of the World constitution includes the following:
https://www.iww.org/culture/official/preamble.shtml

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth."

In this picture of the crash site (with a black and red anarcho-communist flag prominently displayed at bottom center) we can see at least three IWW flags:
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ad...01587895438-636381463186554398-car-attack.jpg

I have no idea if IWW is associated with Antifa and I have no idea if IWW is a violent protest group. I had never heard of IWW until today. None of the people at the intersection deserved to die.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Advocating the ideas of national socialism.
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Thanks, but I was curious how CaptainHowdy would. I was pretty confident about what your answer would be (I was roughly correct).

Mumbles said:
I'd argue that this has already happened - I believe that we've had three former military black nationalists who have made internet videos rejecting the BLM nonviolent route and calling for violence, and then went out and assassinated police. that's last year's attacks in Dallas and Baton Rouge, and this weekend's in Florida.

We're also wildly undercounting the white supremacist violence numbers - the guy who drove from Bmore to NYC to kill a homeless black guy, the guy that shot two Indian immigrants, the guy that killed two people in..was it Seattle? - when they stepped up to stop him from tormenting a muslim woman on a train, and on and on.Last Weekend only served to show that this sort of random white supremacist violence is at the heart of the so-called "Alt-Right".

(Oh, and CaptainHowdy - I saw that little "chimping out" racist reference in post #225. Did that phrase bring back old memories for you?)
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Oh, I meant the far-left groups, not the black nationalists groups. I know that sometimes it's confusing for people on the left and right, but Muslim and black nationalist terror and/or hate groups aren't far-left groups (normally). There is also the issue of why to separate out Islamist groups from the far-right, but not Dominionists and the like. I don't have a problem with it, but I can see the argument against it as having some validity. The murders from the guy who BLM wouldn't let join them does put a HUGE outlier in, depending on how one classifies it. That's one reason for the error range, as in where do those eight deaths actually fall? (The data stops in 2016, so the Portland killings aren't there either, and who knows where those two deaths belong.)

sir drinks-a-lot said:
Huh? What does this have to do with the SOP of Antifa, BAMN, etc.?
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Did you have a better proxy for danger? Did you have better data on which you based your conclusion?
 
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